Tavour is awesome, and I’m super lucky to live in Seattle and pick up my beer in person, go to events they host, etc. Everyone there seems really nice too.
@sbryson111 Tavour is a little different. Tavour picks up a shipment of beer from the Brewery then ships it to its destination. Casemates appears to ask the winery to ship the wine to the destination. Although, I’d imagine a few breweries could be convinced to ship beer themself.
@ACraigL indeed it can. I almost always grab the cheaper 2 for __ cans and twelve ounce bottles. Then I extend out the ship date of my crate to minimize shipping per beer.
@connorbush I did some research and most breweries that would want to do this are self distributors. Self distribution laws vary by each state – but breweries are restricted to selling beers to permit holders (restaurants, Liquor stores). I think the idea of casemates is to pass off logistics to the winery, and it doesn’t seem feasible to have breweries do this.
While one might assume from my wine buying habits that wine is my primary drink, appreciating it is definitely more of a second language to me. I like wine quite a lot but if a “wine woot” or casemates style website for beer existed I would just go broke.
I may have to look into this Tavour thing. But it looks like it lacks the community aspect that really makes this type of thing work.
Economics are important to consider, too. If you’ve ever shipped “local gourmet sauces” to a friend in exchange for some of their “local gourmet sauces,” you have a sense of how quickly shipping adds up, especially for bottles.
No one bats an eye about dropping $15 on a bottle of wine, but that is FAR from the price a beer drinker will pay. Even at Heady Topper prices, it breaks down to the same price as $5 bottle of wine. There’s an EXCEPTIONALLY small overlap in the Venn of “People willing to pay $60 for a 4 bombers of beer” with “Breweries producing $15 bombers of beer” and “States that will allow a Brewery to ship beer to consumers.”
Can packaging is definitely the way to go for something like this, but even still, the problem to overcome, even if shipping was legal, is how to make it worthwhile (read: profitable) for Mediocre, WCC, and the Brewery for ~150 offerings a year.
@corrado I still don’t understand the appeal of Heady Topper… would people be upset with me if they found out I got two six packs for free from a friend and ended up giving away the remaining eleven cans? >.>
@eppppy I just couldn’t deal with the hoppiness. It’s like someone said “let’s make a beer with five times the normal level of hops… then let’s double it!” Not that there’s a normal level mind but you get the idea.
@jbartus …I’d wonder where you got 6-packs of a beer that only comes in 4-packs.
Not every beer is to everyone’s style. IMO, Heady isn’t even the best DIPA in VT. …and I dislike most of Hill Farmstead’s beers.
If you don’t like hoppy beers, don’t drink IPAs and expect to like them. It’s like a Riesling drinker drinking Bordeaux after Bordeaux trying to like red wine.
@corrado perhaps it was a pair of fours then and I gave away seven.
I’ve had IPAs I enjoyed before but the Heady Topper was a whole other experience. That said I’m personally partial to Weißbiers and witbiers, so I’m happy to leave the hoppier beers to those who enjoy them.
Just don’t ask me to understand how Heady Topper’s level of hoppiness could ever be desirable.
@sohmageek Double IPA’s are dirt common here in Virginia so someone must be buying them. I use the corrado plan; any bottle that brags about hops will not be to my taste and there isn’t any sense thinking that this bottle will be drinkable this time.
@jbartus Supertasters dislike bitter things more than tasters and non-tasters, so non-tasters could be (part of) an explanation for the extreme numbers of highly hopped beers that have sprung up in the US.
Some time ago, I recall hearing the theory that the increasing numbers of hotter hot sauces is related to the (apparent) fact that the number of active taste buds dwindles as baby-boomers age. (Not just for boomers, but they have a very large market share.)
@baqui63 the hot sauce thing baffles me too. I enjoy a bit of heat from time to time but I know people who put hot sauce on literally everything. I also can’t fathom what would possess anyone to eat anything derived from a ghost pepper or the like.
@jbartus There is scientific evidence that some people are more tolerant to spicy foods than others. Also, eating lots of spicy food increases one’s tolerance.
eating lots of spicy food increases one’s tolerance
A lot of the Engliah who went to India during the Empire era got their mouths burned out by their first tastes of mild local food. And later became addicted to the incendiary varieties of it.
@jbartus Actually, I cook with ghost pepper powder. A friend grows them and I dry and grind them, using maybe three to five of them a year. The flavors from an 1/8th tsp of ghost pepper powder in many dishes is amazing and I’m not talking about the heat. You can totally taste that small an amount in a six quart pot of chili or beef stew. I normally add the ghost pepper first for flavor and than adjust the heat using other peppers.
Most chile peppers have wonderful fruity flavors behind the heat and people can desensitize themselves to the heat, getting more of those wonderful flavors.
I frequently add a seeded, chopped habanero (or scotch bonnet… same pepper actually) and a cup of shredded cheese to a batch of cornbread or corn muffins. Is definitely better than plain. Have to be careful tho and wear disposable gloves or you can easily mace yourself even a day or two later.
@NightGhost that doesn’t explain people who feel compelled to put hot sauce on basically everything they eat. I know people who literally keep bottles of the stuff in their cars or even pockets. It’s pretty frustrating when you spend hours cooking a meal only to have someone over your house destroy the delicate balance of flavors you’ve slaved over crafting by dousing it in hot sauce. There are flavors worth experiencing that don’t come out of a hot sauce bottle.
@jbartus There are competing theories, but it is clear that some people have some kind of decreased sensitivity in their taste buds. Some people say that everything without hot spices tastes bland to them. They wouldn’t appreciate your “delicate balance of flavors” anyway.
@jbartus I wouldn’t do it at your house or even hint that anything was bland in your delicate flavor balance. That’s just being polite. BUT, I have no reason to be polite at Olive Garden. In my car, yes. In my pocket, not often. At home, I stock five kinds. Nothing particularly nose melting, but there really are different flavors of cayenne. Dad did it and I suppose that’s where I picked up the taste. My wife, on the other hand, is opposite. One red pepper flake and it’s off to the garbage. I’ve seen her toss something with three or more specks of black pepper. Cilantro? Forgetaboutit!
@dashcloud I was reading and excited to see where it was going. It disappointed me by basically being little more than a lesson in the first rule of product creation, ‘give the people what they want’, mixed with supply and demand. I just don’t get the appeal. Going from flavorless beer to flavorful beer I get. It’s the next step that I don’t where uber hoppy is the desired end.
@Winedavid49 Dewey was great because he knew when he was full of . . . . and worked with it. He almost sold me on diesel fuel, er, sake. And, indeed, when I had to buy some sake I remembered his solid information and made a good choice at the store. And it really wasn’t diesel fuel!
I’m not sure if I should post here or start an entirely new thread, but I am curious how many beer drinkers there are amongst this community and whether or not there’s any interest in beer trading. I’m new to the idea, but I’ve developed quite a collection and I’d be open to sharing/trading.
Not being much of a beer drinker, how long can/do you hang on to these?
The short answer is there are no guarantees. Much like wine, some beers can start to decline in as little as 2 to 3 years, while others can age well for 10 years or more.
What changes after x-time?
Softening and decreasing of harsh flavor notes; allowing flavors to blend, resulting in increased complexity; revealing flavors that remain constant as others fade.
Again like wine, some people prefer to drink them young and fresh, while others prefer them with some age, so it’s very subjective.
Need to keep them cold, I’d assume.
Not necessarily. I believe what matters most is temperature stability. Keeping them in a cool, dark place with minimized temperature fluctuations (like a basement) is the norm. You could keep them in a fridge, but the frequent exposure to light whenever the door opens isn’t ideal.
@kawichris650@rjquillin Also, yeast metabolism/autolysis plays a role for non-pasteurized beers (like the ones from Belgian Trappist breweries.) In the old days, when English stock ales were ‘vatted’ (aged in wooden casks for an extended period), a characteristic sour flavor would develop from brett C living in the wood pores. (I’ve read that Guinness still accomplishes this flavor component with an extract, rather than waiting for the wild yeast to do the job.) One man’s flaw is another man’s charm.
Yes, I also like beer, but now I don’t like beer sold in stores. The taste is not the same as it was before. Therefore I decided to learn as much as possible about brewing beer from the Internet to try to brew a good beer myself. And most of all, the information about brewing beer, the correct percentage of alcohol in beer, etc. this site helped me – https://learningtohomebrew.com/how-much-alcohol-is-in-beer-abv-list-by-brand-brewery-style/. So far, he is number 1 for me as a source of information for brewing beer. And you won’t believe it, I’ve learned how to make a cool dark beer in a few months. It’s just gorgeous, so if someone wants drink my beer, just PM me, haha.
Also, scotch
/giphy scotch
it’s an interesting idea and can work in this format. however, it will be a very limited states list. are you in California per chance?
@Winedavid49 I’d be in for some beer deals if MA or NH qualify. craft.casemates.com? imports.casemates.com?
@Winedavid49 check these bad boys out. I really enjoy their offerings. Only ship when you want and pick what you want.
Great tasting beers from Tavour
Signup with this link http://www.tavour.com/?invitedby=124486 and we both get $10 after you purchase a beer.
@Winedavid49 I’m in Minnesota. Apparently only wine can direct ship here. Here’s a list from 2016.
http://www.ncsl.org/research/financial-services-and-commerce/direct-shipment-of-alcohol-state-statutes.aspx
@connorbush So these “Craft Beer Clubs” aren’t subject to the same shipping restrictions by state?
Tavour is awesome, and I’m super lucky to live in Seattle and pick up my beer in person, go to events they host, etc. Everyone there seems really nice too.
@sbryson111 Tavour is a little different. Tavour picks up a shipment of beer from the Brewery then ships it to its destination. Casemates appears to ask the winery to ship the wine to the destination. Although, I’d imagine a few breweries could be convinced to ship beer themself.
@connorbush Yep. I’m a fan, though Tavour does get spendy, pretty quickly.
@ACraigL indeed it can. I almost always grab the cheaper 2 for __ cans and twelve ounce bottles. Then I extend out the ship date of my crate to minimize shipping per beer.
@connorbush I did some research and most breweries that would want to do this are self distributors. Self distribution laws vary by each state – but breweries are restricted to selling beers to permit holders (restaurants, Liquor stores). I think the idea of casemates is to pass off logistics to the winery, and it doesn’t seem feasible to have breweries do this.
@connorbush
Interesting ideas, but can’t deliver to me in MD
@jbartus or Vt?
@sohmageek that’s a longer drive.
+1. Not really into wine but love beer. I’ve had beer delivered via UPS to Pennsylvania before.
While one might assume from my wine buying habits that wine is my primary drink, appreciating it is definitely more of a second language to me. I like wine quite a lot but if a “wine woot” or casemates style website for beer existed I would just go broke.
I may have to look into this Tavour thing. But it looks like it lacks the community aspect that really makes this type of thing work.
@leftymgp I’m on Tavour and like it, but it definitely gets pricey. I do enjoy the offerings though.
Economics are important to consider, too. If you’ve ever shipped “local gourmet sauces” to a friend in exchange for some of their “local gourmet sauces,” you have a sense of how quickly shipping adds up, especially for bottles.
No one bats an eye about dropping $15 on a bottle of wine, but that is FAR from the price a beer drinker will pay. Even at Heady Topper prices, it breaks down to the same price as $5 bottle of wine. There’s an EXCEPTIONALLY small overlap in the Venn of “People willing to pay $60 for a 4 bombers of beer” with “Breweries producing $15 bombers of beer” and “States that will allow a Brewery to ship beer to consumers.”
Can packaging is definitely the way to go for something like this, but even still, the problem to overcome, even if shipping was legal, is how to make it worthwhile (read: profitable) for Mediocre, WCC, and the Brewery for ~150 offerings a year.
@corrado I still don’t understand the appeal of Heady Topper… would people be upset with me if they found out I got two six packs for free from a friend and ended up giving away the remaining eleven cans? >.>
@jbartus i did somehimg similar a few years back. After three cans i grew sick of it. Now i stick to stouts.
@eppppy I just couldn’t deal with the hoppiness. It’s like someone said “let’s make a beer with five times the normal level of hops… then let’s double it!” Not that there’s a normal level mind but you get the idea.
@jbartus …I’d wonder where you got 6-packs of a beer that only comes in 4-packs.
Not every beer is to everyone’s style. IMO, Heady isn’t even the best DIPA in VT. …and I dislike most of Hill Farmstead’s beers.
If you don’t like hoppy beers, don’t drink IPAs and expect to like them. It’s like a Riesling drinker drinking Bordeaux after Bordeaux trying to like red wine.
@corrado perhaps it was a pair of fours then and I gave away seven.
I’ve had IPAs I enjoyed before but the Heady Topper was a whole other experience. That said I’m personally partial to Weißbiers and witbiers, so I’m happy to leave the hoppier beers to those who enjoy them.
Just don’t ask me to understand how Heady Topper’s level of hoppiness could ever be desirable.
@corrado major issue in Vermont. Too many ducking ipa’s.
@jbartus Supertaster vs taster vs non-taster is most likely explanation.
@sohmageek Double IPA’s are dirt common here in Virginia so someone must be buying them. I use the corrado plan; any bottle that brags about hops will not be to my taste and there isn’t any sense thinking that this bottle will be drinkable this time.
@baqui63 are you calling me a supertaster?
@sohmageek it seems to be a problem most everywhere. Every craft brewery and their son has to have at least 3 IPAs for some reason.
@jbartus trying to pm you on discord. You around?
@sohmageek I’m always around. Are you sure you’ve got the right discord? I’m not showing any missed messages.
Edit: Oh I see you mentioned me in chat. Very different from a PM!
I’m paying attention now.
@jbartus Supertasters dislike bitter things more than tasters and non-tasters, so non-tasters could be (part of) an explanation for the extreme numbers of highly hopped beers that have sprung up in the US.
Some time ago, I recall hearing the theory that the increasing numbers of hotter hot sauces is related to the (apparent) fact that the number of active taste buds dwindles as baby-boomers age. (Not just for boomers, but they have a very large market share.)
@baqui63 the hot sauce thing baffles me too. I enjoy a bit of heat from time to time but I know people who put hot sauce on literally everything. I also can’t fathom what would possess anyone to eat anything derived from a ghost pepper or the like.
@jbartus I don’t help this problem as I buy a lot of IPA’s. I enjoy all styles including IPAs and even double IPAs.
@jbartus There is scientific evidence that some people are more tolerant to spicy foods than others. Also, eating lots of spicy food increases one’s tolerance.
@NightGhost
A lot of the Engliah who went to India during the Empire era got their mouths burned out by their first tastes of mild local food. And later became addicted to the incendiary varieties of it.
@jbartus Actually, I cook with ghost pepper powder. A friend grows them and I dry and grind them, using maybe three to five of them a year. The flavors from an 1/8th tsp of ghost pepper powder in many dishes is amazing and I’m not talking about the heat. You can totally taste that small an amount in a six quart pot of chili or beef stew. I normally add the ghost pepper first for flavor and than adjust the heat using other peppers.
Most chile peppers have wonderful fruity flavors behind the heat and people can desensitize themselves to the heat, getting more of those wonderful flavors.
I frequently add a seeded, chopped habanero (or scotch bonnet… same pepper actually) and a cup of shredded cheese to a batch of cornbread or corn muffins. Is definitely better than plain. Have to be careful tho and wear disposable gloves or you can easily mace yourself even a day or two later.
@NightGhost that doesn’t explain people who feel compelled to put hot sauce on basically everything they eat. I know people who literally keep bottles of the stuff in their cars or even pockets. It’s pretty frustrating when you spend hours cooking a meal only to have someone over your house destroy the delicate balance of flavors you’ve slaved over crafting by dousing it in hot sauce. There are flavors worth experiencing that don’t come out of a hot sauce bottle.
@jbartus There are competing theories, but it is clear that some people have some kind of decreased sensitivity in their taste buds. Some people say that everything without hot spices tastes bland to them. They wouldn’t appreciate your “delicate balance of flavors” anyway.
@jbartus I wouldn’t do it at your house or even hint that anything was bland in your delicate flavor balance. That’s just being polite. BUT, I have no reason to be polite at Olive Garden. In my car, yes. In my pocket, not often. At home, I stock five kinds. Nothing particularly nose melting, but there really are different flavors of cayenne. Dad did it and I suppose that’s where I picked up the taste. My wife, on the other hand, is opposite. One red pepper flake and it’s off to the garbage. I’ve seen her toss something with three or more specks of black pepper. Cilantro? Forgetaboutit!
@Lighter I am sorry to hear your wife is so intolerant of heat.
@jbartus Here’s a great article on this issue: Tyranny of the IPA
@dashcloud I was reading and excited to see where it was going. It disappointed me by basically being little more than a lesson in the first rule of product creation, ‘give the people what they want’, mixed with supply and demand. I just don’t get the appeal. Going from flavorless beer to flavorful beer I get. It’s the next step that I don’t where uber hoppy is the desired end.
i’m trying really hard for SakeOne.
@Winedavid49 Those sales in the past were a party in the community postings. Though I’ve not yet been convinced to try a saketini.
I would also be up for bottle conditioned beers (corked). Usually my drink of choice.
@Nyc_Tattoo My homebrew would be bottle conditioned if I didn’t choose to keg it instead.
@Stumpy91 Once you keg it’s hard to go back!
@Stumpy91 What styles of beer do you typically brew? I’m in MN as well by the way.
@markgm I’m with you, bottling is a pain!
Dilly Dilly!
I would love the see the Sake that sometimes popped up on WW … Sake One I think (I’m out otherwise I would check the label
)
yea, remember Dewey? he is one of the best on the boards. not there any more, but we have remained connected.
@Winedavid49 Dewey was great because he knew when he was full of . . . . and worked with it. He almost sold me on diesel fuel, er, sake. And, indeed, when I had to buy some sake I remembered his solid information and made a good choice at the store. And it really wasn’t diesel fuel!
I’m not sure if I should post here or start an entirely new thread, but I am curious how many beer drinkers there are amongst this community and whether or not there’s any interest in beer trading. I’m new to the idea, but I’ve developed quite a collection and I’d be open to sharing/trading.
Here’s a peek at some of my Surly collection.
@kawichris650
Not being much of a beer drinker, how long can/do you hang on to these? What changes after x-time? Need to keep them cold, I’d assume.
@kawichris650 What part of the country are you located in?
@rjquillin
The short answer is there are no guarantees. Much like wine, some beers can start to decline in as little as 2 to 3 years, while others can age well for 10 years or more.
Softening and decreasing of harsh flavor notes; allowing flavors to blend, resulting in increased complexity; revealing flavors that remain constant as others fade.
Again like wine, some people prefer to drink them young and fresh, while others prefer them with some age, so it’s very subjective.
Not necessarily. I believe what matters most is temperature stability. Keeping them in a cool, dark place with minimized temperature fluctuations (like a basement) is the norm. You could keep them in a fridge, but the frequent exposure to light whenever the door opens isn’t ideal.
@CorTot
I’m in the Twin Cities.
@kawichris650 @rjquillin Also, yeast metabolism/autolysis plays a role for non-pasteurized beers (like the ones from Belgian Trappist breweries.) In the old days, when English stock ales were ‘vatted’ (aged in wooden casks for an extended period), a characteristic sour flavor would develop from brett C living in the wood pores. (I’ve read that Guinness still accomplishes this flavor component with an extract, rather than waiting for the wild yeast to do the job.) One man’s flaw is another man’s charm.
As for me, this is a good idea. I remember how Kalsberg held an action. When buying the box, a set of branded mugs was presented as a gift.
Yes, I also like beer, but now I don’t like beer sold in stores. The taste is not the same as it was before. Therefore I decided to learn as much as possible about brewing beer from the Internet to try to brew a good beer myself. And most of all, the information about brewing beer, the correct percentage of alcohol in beer, etc. this site helped me – https://learningtohomebrew.com/how-much-alcohol-is-in-beer-abv-list-by-brand-brewery-style/. So far, he is number 1 for me as a source of information for brewing beer. And you won’t believe it, I’ve learned how to make a cool dark beer in a few months. It’s just gorgeous, so if someone wants drink my beer, just PM me, haha.