Can we talk coffee for a second?
3I appreciate everyone’s wine opinion, have a question about coffee that I’m hoping you can help with.
We have a Keurig that we pull out when friends and family are over, but generally we pull espresso shots from a $300 Delonghi semiautomatic. It’s showing signs of demise and we’re revisiting our options.
We had a super automatic years ago.
I’m considering the Illy system so we can do coffee and espresso with a single device. I considered the Nespresso that will do both, but don’t like that it uses a centrifuge.
Part of me wants to go with the Breville Barista Express, but the convenience of a pod system is so alluring. Anyone try the Illy system?
- 29 comments, 153 replies
- Comment
I haven’t used the Illy system so unfortunately I can’t help there, but would add that I’ve had pretty poor experiences with the Nespresso system. Probably 2/3rd of the Nespresso machines I’ve used have either been broken or malfunctioning in some way. I don’t know if it’s the quality of the construction, something about the design, or maybe the machine I’ve come in contact with have had harder than normal lives (they are generally in hotel rooms) but I’ve not been impressed with them at all, and generally don’t even bother anymore if that’s what’s provided.
@xandersherry Yeah, that’s definitely a concern. The Illy systems that do the frothing automatically seem to be problematic, which is a concern…I was just planning on buying an extended warranty…
like ~fresh ground~ coffee?
not gonna get that in a pod.
nuff said?
We don’t grind daily, we grind per cup; be it pour over, drip, french or extract.
@rjquillin It’s a trade off between ultimate quality and convenience. My Keurig is never going to produce anything close to what I can do with nice lightly roasted fresh ground Ethiopian bean and a french press, but it’s a heck of a lot easier to make a simple cuppa, which is why I use the Keurig every day and save grinding beans and the french presses for when I have time both to employ them and savor the result.
@rjquillin Never had a pod I liked! Although I’ve only tried a few in dire need of caffeine. I’m with you, grind every cup. I have been trying the Prismo from fellow products as an attachment to the aeropress. It’s quick and convenient and makes a nice smooth cup. Normally I just do a pour over. Scalable to a pot or a cup. Love my new Baratza grinder. That thing is a tank.
@rjquillin Yeah…I get that. I sometimes do cold brew at home, have a french press, and a moka pot. I also have the ability to do a pour-over, but haven’t tried i yet. Suffice it to say, I like experimenting and learning what I like/don’t like. I really do like the semi-automatic DeLonghi, produces a nice espresso…though I know even THAT isn’t as nice as what other machines can do. The grinder we have, for instance, does not do a good job of getting a real espresso grind.
In addition to looking at this from a convenience perspective, it’s also a financial one. Trying to get an espresso solution that’s quick/easy to prevent someone from going to Starbucks nearly daily. A super-automatic (Jura or other) will certainly fit that bill, but entry point is pricey and it doesn’t solve for the coffee needs that come up.
It would be nice to have a single solution for all…That said, if I end up sacrificing quality to the extent that it’s not good espresso, then that defeats the purpose.
@rjquillin @xandersherry
That is some sexy talk right there. But, you can still use a filter basket in a keurig with freshly ground, home roasted, pick your Ethiopian region preference. (Interjection, if you like fruity notes, a good Papua New Guinea rivals Harrar and Sidamo, in my opinion. Yirgacheffes, are, of course, more floral.)
Point is: good beans, good roast (appropriate for the region), freshly ground… a keurig is surprisingly competent. Weekends? French press for sure.
I’m sure there is a difference between “fresh ground” varieties, in however they appear. Given that, there is a question of value: money spent vs product received.
Given the premise I have defined, I’m not so sure that the increase in money expended, justifies the result in terms of what you receive.
Not an expert, by any means, but do you want to pay for something you can’t differentiate?
It’s kind of like the old stereo thing, when I bought mine. I can pay, to hear frequencies outside of the human audible range, or I can pay for what I can hear, or just a little more.
It’s a matter of choice.
@CroutonOllie Sadly, in this scenario, I may end up paying more for less quality…Time being the only benefit…If your equation ignores time spent then it would be a really dumb move. But time is valuable so can’t be ignored.
PS: I made my own speakers when I was in college (designed and built the crossovers from scratch, etc)…man do they STILL sound amazing.
Sorry you had Nespresso issues.
Nespresso is the only pod espresso system that scores above poor to fair on coffee review. My daughter has used one for many many years. An actual Nespresso, not one of the others who make for the Nespresso pods.
That being said, their coffee pods rate much much poorer than their espresso ones. Sorry.
But if you get a Keurig that lets you use the special filters that you fill yourself, you will get a decent cup from it, but not a great cup
At work I have 2 older model Jura super automatics that work like a charm. you can buy refurbed ones from Jura for about half retail and they work well and they will fix them for ever for a fraction of the cost. They have excellent customer service.
At home, I have a Coffee Association of America certified drip machine, one of only 3 I think, and a siphon, poor over and various french presses.
@CroutonOllie @vaaccess you need to think of coffee like you think of wine. Are you still buying Boones Farm or the stuff at the discount store that’s 5 dollars a box or are you hear looking for something that is better than good? And willing to pay a bit more for it. Coffee is the same. You get what you pay for and if your tastes are sophisticated, you will pay more than for folgers
@Cerridwyn Price does not equal quality, or value; choice determines.
Play on.
@CroutonOllie no it does not
but you won’t get a fine leather purse from a sow’s ear
@Cerridwyn You’re likely to afford neither, and share them with no-one.
@Cerridwyn Good to know about the Jura. I’ve certainly seen plenty, and one of the issues I had with the original super-automatic DeLonghi was that when the grinder died, the rest of the machine was kinda on the fritz and it was nearly impossible, and very expensive, to have it worked on.
Bean quality is definitely a critical factor…one of the reasons why I was thinking the Illy might be a good/reasonable option since I respect their coffee quality in general. And, since their system uses 15-bars for the espresso and also does normal coffee…I was hoping that it would, generally speaking, have good results on both sides. I am really disappointed in Nespresso’s solution to being able to do both, frankly the only company that MIGHT do it well is Illy…
I need to go back to their site and figure out what their return policy is for it, or via Amazon…Or maybe I’ll just do the refurb Jura like you mentioned and keep the inlaws/friends drinking the awful Keurig!
@vaaccess I find the coffee from my jura quite palatable. mine is a very old model but it still has settings. I like it on how I have mild set up, one of my coworkers likes it strong, another likes it really strong and makes a cup and ads shots.
Stick with a semi-automatic! You can always pull a long double and make it an Americano. That’s better than most drip coffees anyway, right?
I have a Gaggia Evolution. Since I rarely steam milk it was an excellent value and still is quite happy 5 years on.
@klezman Americano is my favorite right now. Straight up, no cream or sweetener of any kind.
Speaking of coffee… this beast showed up today. Will roast a pound at a time (so much more than my iRoast!). Unfortunately it arrived a few days ahead of all the Kenyan beans I ordered from two different sites. twiddles thumbs
@capnjb good grief don’t let me get into roasting my own beans. I’ve threatened to do it, but my wife would probably not be happy! That said, tell me more about that thing!!!
@vaaccess Nothing beats freshly roasted beans
I started roasting about 10 years ago with a little roaster that would do about a cup of beans at a time. Two years ago I knocked it off the counter top and it shattered into unrecoverable peices. I tried to source parts to get it up and running again, but the coffee roaster business is a bit of a niche hobby and parts weren’t available so I stopped roasting for some time. I finally broke down this weekend (read: drank a bunch of wine) and decided it was time to get roasting again. Can’t wait for my beans to arrive 
@capnjb nice. I’ve thought about doing it on the kamado, maybe one day I’ll give that a try! Not sure how it would be smoked like that, though.
@vaaccess lots start out with an old fashioned air popper. it works.
and gratz to you @capnjb - i’ll go pretty darn far but wouldn’t go to roasting my own, not unless someone gave me a high end home roaster for free. And then it would probably end up on the shelp brought out for grins and giggles, like my siphon (wish i’d bought that awesome one that looks kinda steam punk from Belgium)
OMFG you can get them at walmart
@Cerridwyn while that is 100% cool, it sorta goes against the convenience measure! Not to mention the counter space it would take up.
@vaaccess I would agree with the convenience measure. But it’s still sexy
@vaaccess Put that center on the dining table!
@capnjb
What was it that you were using all those years?
@vaaccess An iRoast2 - I tried for about 6 months to find a new roasting chamber (the thing I broke) but the vendor was impossible to contact and many ebay searches turned up fruitless. So I eventually gave up the search and life got busy… so roasting fell off the agenda. It was a great roaster though… really customizable programming.
@capnjb well…after excessive thinking and reading, I decided to go with a Franklin’s brand whirly pop manual stovetop popper. It was only $40.
I have an outdoor cooktop and it will roast a bunch at one time, so I think that will be helpful.
I bought some freshly roasted beans from a local coffee place that had roasted these beans the previous day. It was too light of a roast for me, but I could already tell it was a totally different experience. The coffee almost tasted like a heavy tea, vs a coffee. I’ll have to stick to a darker roast I think. I also will need to buy some green beans!
@vaaccess Very cool! Don’t forget you’re still going to need a good way to cool down your beans. I’ve never tried it, but I’ve seen people use two metal pans and pour the beans back and forth to quickly disperse the heat. A pair of loaf pans might work.
I’ve done two roast in my new roaster. One one a little light (1/2 pound) and the other went a little too long (full pound). My kenyan AA beans are here so I think I might try a few 1/4 pound rounds to see if I can get it dialed in.
@capnjb yeah…gonna be watching some YouTube to see how others are doing it!
I ordered the mega sampler of beans just to try lots of them out. Looking forward to giving it a go.
@capnjb @vaaccess For an air-roaster a big metal colander works, just swirl the beans around. BTW I’ve been using a modified air-popper (added a $6 ebay SCR to make the heater element adjustable) and it works quite well for doing city+ or darker with central american and Kenyan beans. Total investment $25 ($40 if you don’t have the big colander). I do manually agitate the beans constantly while drying and occasionally later on, but have been able to get excellent results doing Citi+ through Full City+ roasts that take about 8-9 minutes overall with at least 1 minute of development time after first crack is largely over.
Thinking about getting a behmor so that I can roast larger batches because people have hinted strongly how much they would like some of the coffee, and I wouldn’t mind a little less involvement in the roasting process.
My biggest problem is that by the time I try a few roast profiles on a pound of green beans and decide I want to go back and get more, Sweet Marias is invariably sold out of them! (If anyone finds green Kenya Nyeri Karogoto AB somewhere, please let me know! Done somewhere between City+ and FC it makes most excellent drip IMHO.)
@mother city+ ???
I went with the whirly pop since I have an outdoor burner and I think it’ll do more…???
Got the whirly pop today and green beans coming tomorrow from The Captain’s Coffee. Gonna be a fun weekend activity!
@vaaccess Roast levels beyond light roast are City/Full City/Vienna/Charcoal/Starbucks, Ok Ok, the last two are French and Italian) a + is like a half step between the two.
City is what you have when the beans have gone through their first crack. Full City is when the second crack just starts and French is when 2nd crack has finished.
I drink one big cup a morning, so I can spend 25-30 minutes once a week roasting coffee and be set with the air popper. Wouldn’t mind halving that time with a different method, but I’d lose my mind if I made a big pot a day.
What kind of beans did you order?
@mother I appreciate you articulating that Starbucks is beyond charcoal.
I went with The Captain’s Coffee three region sampler and their espresso blend. Getting it tomorrow, so we shall see!!!
@vaaccess Sorry, if I liked Sbux I’d never have started roasting
You’ll be amazed at how utterly different the same damn thing from different places is. Not just flavor, but how they roast.
Grape terroir has nothing on coffee.
@mother
Received my assortment today, this is what I received, plus an espresso blend as well…
I have used a Nespresso and can say that the espresso I had from it was very good. That said, I don’t like that you have to buy their pods and cant use your own coffee, unless you jury rig it but it takes a lot of time to make your own pods each time. But if you are just looking for something quick, and dont mind having to buy pods all the time, than its for sure a good choice.
@Twich22
There is something in how they make their pods that makes them unique from other systems.
There is another company in europe that makes coffee for the nespresso. cost prohibitive imho
@Cerridwyn Lavazza has the same issue with sole sourced pods and no way, that I’ve found, to roll your own.
I got yer Nespresso right here, only 10 grand. (It came up in my search for wine fridges.)
I know if my Jura caught fire one day I’d go out any buy another one. With over 6,100 cups through it, it’s been reliable.
@markgm Out of curiosity, which model?
@vaaccess S9 One-touch
@markgm
That looks like a good one. How easy/hard is it to keep the milk frothing part clean? I’m trying to decide if the benefit of one-touch is out weighed by the cleaning process since it’s not too hard to keep the wand clean if done manually…
/giphy Coffee machine
@vaaccess I don’t make milk-based drinks too often, but when I do I just put the tube directly into the milk container. Once the drink is done I swap the milk container out for a glass of water press a button to run hot water through that part of the machine. I cheat so I don’t have to empty the built-in tray often and keep a small container nearby for the waste water to drip into when it does the auto-cleaning rituals. I also don’t remove the water container, but just fill a pitcher and dump it in.
The one-touch part applies to both making drinks and cleaning the machine. It has some pretty good logic that it knows what drink you made (it has 3 different spouts coffee comes out of, 1 for milk, and 1 for hot water) and what is dirty and needs to be cleaned.
These people do really good reviews of super automatics, this is the model I have: https://www.seattlecoffeegear.com/learn/videos-home/crew-reviews/espresso-machine-reviews/jura-s9-one-touch
@markgm yep, I watched their video on the one you have last night! They do a great job, but your extra details are helpful!
@markgm
Mine is really old. I have a Jura F9 and I love it. when it died, I bought a Jura Capressa F9 (yes, this model was made at the time of the merger/name change) on eBay. Only difference was the quality of the translation of the manual.
this is when I learned how cheap it is to get them fixed. the person I bought it from had it shipped to me from Jura US and it had the invoice in it. So I sent in the other one. It sits in a box in the corner of my office between my desk and the credenza for if it happens again.
@markgm I have the same one, or one that looks identical. As far as ease of use, convenience, speed, and ease of cleaning its a 10/10. But IMO, as far as quality of the coffee goes, its only like a 6/10 or 7/10. The ease of use makes it a worthwhile investment, and its not like I don’t drink it anyway, but somewhere in the machine some quality of the coffee and espresso it makes is sacrificed. Its not a big deal, its not like its bad coffee or anything, its just not 10/10 amazing coffee/espresso.
@Twich22 I think it makes a much better espresso than cup of coffee, I think your ratings are close to spot on. I’ll add that I consider a Keureg to be a 2 or 3/10. That said, after thousands of cups of coffee, I’ll gladly drink thousands more out of it! I think my preference is to use a French press, but laziness usually wins out in the end.
It seems my case of Broken Earth Pull red blend and 5 pounds of raw coffee beans are riding on the same FedEx truck. waits by the mailbox
@capnjb that’s going to be quite the delivery!!!
@vaaccess I’m going to have to distract my wife when the truck pulls up.
Just curious if you are in the VA area? Once I get a few practice rounds through this roaster I’m happy to start sharing 
@capnjb yep. RVA specifically.
@vaaccess Cool. I’m in the DC area. I always roast more than I can drink and love to share it. Now that I can roast a pound a time it will be even easier to share.
When they get the PMs worked out, let me know your address and I’ll send you enough for a pot or two 
This is why I love supporting small businesses. 8 years ago when I started roasting coffee I found an amazing little coffee supplier. Prices were reasonable and product was exceptional. They were always available to answer questions and always wrote a personal note on my receipt. I broke my roaster 2 or 3 years ago and hadn’t roasted since. I just got a new one and and placed my first order with this company in a long long time. It just arrived and my invoice had a hand writen paragraph that started with ‘Glad to have you back, Josh!’
And instead of the normal paper or plastic packing material to protect my beans, they packed it in with an awesome burlap coffee sack. Oh, and the wine arrived too 
And that’s a 150Lb coffee sack
@capnjb 150lb sack for your 5lb order? Pretty cool.
@capnjb Got a name you would be willing to share?
@JOATMON https://thecaptainscoffee.com/ They are awesome
@capnjb
Nice! my sister in law used to roast her own beans, my favorite that she would get was some kind of Ethiopian peaberrys, man that was rich and decadent! Not to mention that is really one of the few ways to actually get a really fresh cup of coffee.
@ScottW58 Peaberries are great. Back in the day they used to be discarded as defects as they are formed when a normal coffee cherry doesn’t split into the normal two seeds. I used to get them from time to time but I find them a little more difficult to roast as their un-uniformity (is that a word?) can make a consistant roast difficult. That being said, because you get the intensity of two beans in one, you absolutely end up with a super rich cup.
@capnjb
must be something better now?
Oh man I’m starting to think I need a roaster! Which one are you using? My sister in-law’s smoked so much we had to do it outside
@capnjb Love the peaberrry! Balanced but packed with flavor
@ScottW58 If you start roasting I’ll chip in for some beans. Gotta keep my Gaggia supplied!
@klezman
I have a better idea how about you pay for half the roaster and I’ll buy all the beans… unless you can figure out a way to roast beans in my new Vitamix
@ScottW58 Nice. I actually have no idea how much these things cost, but it would totally be a luxury. Coffee to feed the espresso machine, otoh, is a necessity.
So my debut roast was a half pound of an Ethiopian Yirgacheffe Konga. Small beans but good for a first roast. I only set off the smoke detector twice
And I can’t wait until tomorrow. Smells so good
@capnjb Looks awesome. Is there an ROI for roasting your own, have you done the math on it? Wondering how I could possibly justify one for myself!
@vaaccess Well the first thing to do is not tell your wife. After that it’s all profit!
You can get really, really good beans for $8 or $9 a pound. I had a $200 roaster that lasted me about six years… but I actually killed that one. So that’s on me. 
@capnjb Just so I understand the scale of your statement, when you use those really, really good beans, how much would an equivalent pound of really, really good beans cost if you bought them already roasted?
@vaaccess I’d say you’re looking at boutique prices. $25 or so a pound. And the freshness really doesn’t compare. Roasted coffee will go stale within a week. Ground coffee goes stale within 24 hours. Most people have never had coffee that wasn’t stale…heh
I’ll send you some and let you be the judge though (soon as we can PM here). 
@capnjb so I’d need to roast roughly 20 pounds to theoretically warrant the expenditure.
Another 2 questions…
@vaaccess I’ll let you justify your costs on your own, but I wouldn’t approach this from a cost saving perspective
Green coffee beans last forever (or at least can last for several years if not stored in a hostile environment) but I’ve never had any that didn’t get roasted within a few months. I use a Capresso Infinity grinder and it works fine. I don’t grind espresso all that often (mostly for my wife) but you can get really fine with it.
@vaaccess And this is another great site I buy from… also has lots of great info. https://www.sweetmarias.com/
@capnjb Agree with you regarding the cost justification. Yes, I certainly would be doing this to enjoy coffee even more than I do now, but it’s always nice to have the numbers back up a decision!!! I’m going to see what other Kamado grill owners are doing with their coffee roasting, see if they are having success. Can you tell me what temp you roast at and for how long? That might generally help me determine whether I can use the grill easily or not. (It SHOULD work…)
@capnjb I just looked and my Capresso is a disk Burr grinder, not a great one.
https://m.bedbathandbeyond.com/m/product/capresso-reg-disk-coffee-burr-grinder/1018700999?keyword=capressa grinder
@capnjb what roaster do you use. I didn’t even know roasting your own coffee was a thing, but now I am super interested.
@capnjb Nvm I found your post above.
@capnjb So I might have bought a roaster, impulsive buyer style. Its my fathers birthday and I could not think of a gift, so this seemed like a good choice. Plus I want to use it myself so its a win-win. That being said, I know 0 things about roasting. Any tips?
@Twich22 Hah. Good for you! You can find some good info here: https://www.sweetmarias.com/
I’d start off with a sampler pack, either globally or regionally. Single origin coffees all have unique flavors and it doesn’t make sense to buy a bunch of any one until you know what you like or don’t like. For example, I’m not a big fan of south American beans. They tend to be a bit too earthy for me. I prefer African coffees, Kenyan AAs are my favorite (the AA refers to the size of the bean). Every now and again I’ll try something new… I had a good coffee from Australia that was grown on the side of an extinct volcano (who knew?) and occasionally I’ll splurge and get some estate grown Kona.
It will take a few roasts to get to know your roaster. But ALWAYS stay will it, beans can go from light to burnt in no time. And it will smoke between first and second crack. If roasting inside be sure to be near a door or window until you know how much smoke it puts out. Start your cooling cycle a bit before you get to your desired roast, the beans will continue to roast before they cool down.
It will be tempting to grind your freshly roasted beans right away but you have to let them rest. They will degas a bit for a few hours so I just toss them in a jar or Tupperware container and leave them overnight. You’ll know by their smell when they’re ready
They go from toasty smelling to room filling goodness. You’ll figure it out 
@Twich22 There are probably also lots of youtube videos for your roaster. Watch a few of them to get acquainted
@capnjb Thanks! Where/How should I store my green beans?
@Twich22 I just always keep them in whatever they are shipped in. Normally in a cabinet in the kitchen. Don’t want to store them in a hot place or a really dry place. Other than that they are pretty resilient.
@capnjb just finished my first roast!
I got a but scared when it started smoking so i shut it down early. I could not tell if i had hit first crack yet. I think the cracking sound was a lot more quite than i was expecting? I was expecting the loudness of popcorn but it was not that much. I think i turned it off 30 seconds to 1 minute after first crack but am not sure.
Anyways, should i leave them to rest in an open or closed container? And once they are ready to brew hiw should i store them? Thanks!
Time to roast another batch! Im going all the way to second crack this time. Ill probably start a fire.
@Twich22 Awesome! First crack sounds kind of like dry kindling burning to start a fire. It’s not super loud but it’s noticeable. You’ll want to go a minute or two past that. It’s really all trial and error. I just did my third roast in my new machine and I think I nailed it. Beautiful roast on my favorite beans (Kenyan AA). You can let them rest open or closed. I don’t think it matters that much. They’ll degas a bit but nothing that will blow lids off things.
@capnjb Thanks! I just did my second roast and made it through first crack. I definitely did not hit first crack on my first roast. Should I just throw those beans out? Anyways, I hit first crack but my temp got too low and I didn’t hit second crack. Plus I did not know what it was going to sound like. But I have since watched a video showing the rice crispy sound. Next time!
@Twich22 Don’t throw it out. Make half a pot. Taste it. Learn something. Roast again. Circle of life and all that
@Twich22 And for what it’s worth, with my new roaster I also panicked and hit my cooling cycle before first crack.
My second roast I burned the crap out of because… learning. 
@capnjb Well, I just did a roast today. The Captain didn’t get the beans to me in time for the long weekend, so I went to a local roaster (Blanchard’s) and picked up two beans. The one I roasted was from Brazil, Carrudo.
I had to re-roast the first one I did several times, each time I mistakenly pulled it too soon and before it cooled down I re-ran it through the Whirly Pop. Once I understood better what I was listening for (after having watched some videos, too), I definitely got it more figured out.
I went with one that is a mid-roast and the others were a darker roast, which is more likely what we’d prefer. Not sure how well this picture will depict the differences between them. They’ve been airing since this afternoon, I’ll seal before I go to bed and will use them tomorrow. I’ll be sure to allow time between grinding and then also give the beans to air a bit while brewing. I’m curious to try the different roast levels just to better understand what I like/don’t like/etc!
@Twich22 I very interested by how this ends up working out for you. I’m lurking here and definitely considering roasting my own some day. I’m sure we’ll get a chance to chat about it at some point once these Seattle gatherings pick up.
@trifecta @Twich22 I just roasted for the second time…And I knocked it out of the park! Smells so good…Can’t wait to try it in the morning!!!
These are Ethiopian Yirgacheffe beans, roasted to 420-430 degrees.
@Twich22 @vaaccess
@trifecta @vaaccess @capnjb I am having a great deal of fun trying out different beans and different roast levels. Heres a Guatemalan bean roasted to 3 different levels that I just finished. Can’t wait to try them out!
I highly recommend you a LaSpaziale Mini Vivaldi II. It’s a double boiler espresso machine. I got mine about 10 years ago from Chris’ Coffee in NY. I shipped it to them for a service last year and they told me it’s basically still like a new machine.
http://www.chriscoffee.com/La-Spaziale-Mini-Vivaldi-p/m-vivaldi-ii.htm
For a grinder, look for a stepless burr grinder with a doser.
I can further elaborate that finding a good roaster is akin to finding a great vineyard. I’ve bought beans from all over the country and had them shipped to me. When I travel I search out local roasters and if I enjoy their espresso I bring some pounds home. I recently went to Tallahassee and discovered Lucky Goat Coffee, they’re one of the best roasters in the country.
Once you start pulling your own shots you’ll never go back.
If you like to brew by hand:
@Cerridwyn Interesting. DId you sign up?
@vaaccess I did.
and i really like the new black one you can get if they make there second stretch goal
I like exploring new ways to make coffee. some are a dud, some are awesome but complicated
this looks sexy and not so complicated
@Cerridwyn @vaaccess backed it for tea. Love the ceramic ones, but not sure if I like that I cant see tea.
Look, the best part of waking up is Folgers in my cup. You fancy folk and your expressos!
@bhodilee unless it induces vomiting immediately afterwards. I really hope you are joking…
@trifecta THE.BEST.PART!
@bhodilee
I don’t drink espresso on a regular basis (note, s, not x). I do drink coffee, every day, usually more than once.
You wouldn’t be on this site, I hope, if you didn’t comprehend the difference between mediocre wine and Mediocre wine (pun intended) or even fuck that’s awesome wine.
Coffee, like wine, doesn’t taste the same when it comes from two different roasters/vintners. So many factors impact that final taste, and with coffee, the impact doesn’t end until the end user brews the cup.
@Cerridwyn I spelled it phonetically!
@bhodilee
nope
es·pres·so
eˈspresˌō
noun
strong black coffee made by forcing steam through ground coffee beans.
@Cerridwyn erroneous, I aksed Alexa.
@bhodilee
/
@bhodilee @Cerridwyn Your definition is wrong. You don’t use steam to brew espresso, it’s hot water under pressure. It’s also not hot enough to be steam even under atmospheric pressure, since it’s brewed at around 90-95 degrees.
@bhodilee @Cerridwyn @klezman You Canadians, and your Celsius.
@bhodilee @klezman
Not my definition
the dictionary’s
@Cerridwyn @klezman @rjquillin DON’T YOU LUMP ME IN WITH NO CANADIANS!!! I’m not that civilized.
@bhodilee @klezman @rjquillin
nor that passive
and while I comprehend the use of a Celsius thermometer, and have used them in various work or school setting, I’m a California girl, born and bred
@Cerridwyn @klezman @rjquillin I wear my heart on my sleeve and drink my Folgers from the skulls of my enemies.
Doesn’t it all taste the same once you load it with cream and sugar and fancy flavorings?
@North316 French Vanilla CoffeeMate FTW!!!
@North316
blasphemy
and to an extent yes
but most craft coffee lovers never add sugar and if cream only a tiny bit. We drink it black so that we can taste the subtleties of terrier and cultivar that make each bag of coffee unique.
I’m not a wine junkie, I’m here because well, in all honesty, I want to see where it goes.
But would you say all red wine tastes alike?
@Cerridwyn Sarcasm is lost in translation this day and age.
@North316
I have actually been told that sarcasm is a dying art in this age of text because without the non-verbal cues you don’t really know if someone is being serious or not
@Cerridwyn @North316 I would argue that my Folgers has subtleties of terrier, mainly rat terrier.
This whole thread fascinates me. I wasn’t much of a coffee drinker till a few years ago and it really started by drinking anything so froo froo it was really just a little coffee with my chocolate and cream and it was usually something from starbucks because that app is so convenient so I got pretty accustomed to burnt tasting coffee. I basically drink it unsweetened now with a variety of fats, but based on this thread, it’s still very past prime. I’m not sure if I could tell the difference but now I’m curious.
@airynne I have a long ways to go, but already can guarantee you will be able to taste the difference. Especially if you already can discern one wine vs another.
@airynne
If you don’t mind where do you live? I might be able to find you a good place you could go try
@Cerridwyn Across the Puget Sound from Seattle near Bremerton. I imagine Seattle has someplace given it’s reputation for coffee.
@airynne
Storyville Coffee Company Bainbridge Island was there just a few months ago, right on your way too work…right?
They know how to roast beans!
@airynne Oh yeah, tons’ of coffee and there is a recommendation already
@ScottW58 Well, not on my way to work since I work from home, but I do get over to Bainbridge about twice a month so I will stop there next time I’m over that way.
@airynne
And while you’re traveling those lovely islands make sure you go over to Vashon and stop by the Andrew Will winery, great stuff
@ScottW58 I moved here just under 4 years ago and in the last month I’ve gotten better recommendations of where to go from this forum than from any of the locals.
@airynne I’m not surprised. This community is a knowledgeable and resourceful group.
I’m really not much of a coffee drinker, but I’ve been keeping an eye on this discussion because it’s been quite informative. I used to say the same about beer/wine and now I don’t know whether to be embarrassed or proud of the collection I’ve accrued. While I don’t see myself roasting/grinding/brewing coffee, this discussion does have me considering getting a Nespresso. It seems to provide an acceptable balance between quality and convenience. Plus a good friend has one so I’m sure I’ll be able to “try before I buy.”
@ScottW58 slight bit of thread hijack, but it looks like Andrew Will doesn’t do a tasting room for non-members. Any other close to Seattle wineries you’d recommend? I’ll be up there in April and would love to try something new.
@radiolysis @ScottW58 Laurelhurst cellars if you happen to be up on a n open weekend. Nothing fancy to look at (warehouse winery), but tasty juice.
@radiolysis @trifecta
Cadence, Rotie cellars and Kerloo cellars have tasting rooms in Seattle. Cadence and Rotie have excellent wines and I have heard Kerloo is good to?
Other awesome places to try over toward Seattle itself are Cherry Street, Victrola, as local faire. Stumptown originally from Portland has a place there, well known and very consistent. I’ve coffee crawled in Seattle itself and looked at the Bremerton list but nothing familiar came up.
You want a place where if you ask the Barista questions, they are patient and answer them. I personally would suggest a single origin Ethiopian of some sort as a good thing to try. They are rarely overroasted and pretty consistently have a natural sweetness to them, but there are lots of different cultivars.
I tend to stay away from much from South America until I trust a place. You don’t always get Arabica (sp.) in an inexpensive place and again you are often getting mega-farm raised coffee that places like Nestle and Starbucks buy. If you trust the place you can get some wonderful tasting notes out of well roasted Guatemalans.
And while blends can be good, they exist so the place can make something that always tastes pretty much the same.
Small farm, direct trade can usually get you the best experience, if you cannot get direct trade, go with fair trade. Organic has little meaning.
Most of SE Asia still grows Robista (cheaper, more bitter, stronger beans with a much higher caffeine kick).
Don’t let someone try to sell you Kona, or Jamaican or Geisha until you have developed a decent palate. You don’t always really get those expensive beans, or at least just those beans, you are as likely to get a blend that is only 10% Kona if they suspect they can pull one over on you.
Has anyone tried one of those cold brewers that are all the rage? Supposedly hot brewing releases bitter chemicals that aren’t found in cold brew.
@NightGhost
I drink cold brew all the time. I don’t brew it myself.
It is less bitter, most of the time, if done right. It also has less of the special characteristics that many cultivars have, but it’s still yummy, especially on a hot So Cal day
@Cerridwyn @NightGhost
Yep, drink it pretty often, and have brewed it at home. That said, I gotta say a Cold Brew NITRO is amazeballs! Kinda like drinking a beer, but it’s coffee. Yummy.
I think I prefer pour-over, honestly. The Cold Brew is certainly smooth and consistent…a nice way to drink coffee that might otherwise be bad (@starbucks), but not the ultimate coffee experience for me!
@NightGhost @vaaccess
Exactly vaaccess
It’s stronger than the same amount of usual coffee too, btw.
I also use it to make coffee shakes, generally no milk. coffee, ice and chocolate or caramel or the like.
@Cerridwyn @NightGhost @vaaccess I’ve done a couple of cold brews, but generally not all that impressed; also a pour over or press kinda palate.
Shakes sound interesting tho…
For swmbo.
@Cerridwyn @rjquillin @vaaccess Thanks for all the replies. Will try it.
@NightGhost Yes, I cold brew occassionally. I like it but nothing beats a good espresso. Once you’ve pulled and tried a “God shot” nothing else compares.
There are so many fantastic cold brews available in the grocery store these days I feel it’s a better option than cold brewing at home.
@NightGhost The only time I’ve cold brewed was for adding it to a coffee stout I had brewed. I did a really coarse grind and covered with cold water and left it in the fridge overnight. Plunged in the morning. Was pretty good actually. I should probably revisit that
So I took the cool coffee bean sack I received, grabbed some plywood and a staple gun and made some basement art
The ‘A’ side made it into beer corner. I spend a lot of time in beer corner.
And @vaaccess I haven’t forgetten about you, life’s been busy. I’ll get you some beans soon
@capnjb
I like!
@capnjb You’ve been naughty. Go to your corner!
@capnjb Nicely done! And, I’m roasting beans like crazy, so no need to send me any unless you want some in return!
@capnjb Wait, do those taps work?
@Twich22 Of course!
When my wife was 5 months pregnant she agreed to let me punch holes in a perfectly good wall in the name of beer. When you get that green light, you move swiftly. 
Sadly I haven’t had the time to brew very much and the taps are currently dry. Although I do have a gluten-free Czech Pilsner lagering in the keg fridge.
Getting today started right, bout to get seriously woke up in here!
@capnjb @bhodilee
Really makes me want to take pics off all my coffee gear (you probably really don’t want to know)
@capnjb @Cerridwyn PICS OR IT DIDNT HAPPEN!!
@bhodilee @Cerridwyn Ummm… I roasted a full pound of Kenyan AA tonight and didn’t screw it up?
@bhodilee @Cerridwyn And I’m pretty sure the smell coming from my kitchen is raising property values.
@bhodilee @capnjb
SWEET!!
@bhodilee @capnjb
Not all inclusive
@Cerridwyn What’s your drip maker?
@capnjb
KitchenAid Coffee Maker KCM0802.
One of very few SCAA Certified Brewers
Current SCAA Certified Home Brewers include (in no particular order):
Technivorm Moccamaster
Bunn Phase Brew 8 Cup Coffee Brewer
Bonavita 8 Cup Exceptional Brew Coffee Maker with glass or thermal carafe (BV1800)
Brazen Plus Customizable Temperature Control Brew System
KitchenAid Coffee Maker KCM0802
Bonavita Coffee Maker (model BV1900TS)
That’s the red one in the back, the one in the front is a siphon/vacuum brewer
@capnjb Wow, so you can do a full pound and still get that dark of a roast! Good to know.
@capnjb could you give me some pointers about your roast profile and such? Do you go full power the whole time? Most of my roasts that make it to 2nd crack or beyond taste a bit burnt. Is that how its supposed to taste, or is it because of the beans I am using, or is it because my temps too high, or is it something else? I’m still only roasting 4 oz at a time. I don’t even go far into 2nd roast, and visually they are not even as dark as a dark roast starbucks bean, but the burnt taste is much more prominent. Same questions for 1st crack, do you lower the heat during 1st crack? Every time I try to lower the heat during 1st crack I basically don’t make it past 1st crack.
@Twich22 I’m still trying to figure out the Behmor
It recommends P3 for African beans so I’ll either run that or P2. I haven’t messed around too much with manual mode (I have a little… and I over cooked the beans). Mostly I sit and watch the color of the beans. Once I hear first crack I’m on high alert… normally don’t let it get into second crack. The cooling cycle is slower than my last roaster and I’m finding it varies by the amount of beans you’re roasting. I started the cooling cycle right at the tail end of first crack for a full pound roast and it turned out great. I’ll move into manual roasts once I get more comfortable with the nuances of the Behmor.
@Twich22 in my experience with crack, you have to use an even flame or the experience isn’t quite right.
@capnjb Thanks. I have just been going manual the whole time. Maybe I will try out some of the programs just to get a feel for how they recommend to roast. Do you just set the machine as instructed (1/4th lb for 4 oz, P3)? Or do you need to adjust the time a lot? and do you use the C feature for 1st crack?
The photos of the beans above look like they made it to second crack. Did they not?
@capnjb @Twich22 So, the gears on the Franklin popper (stir-crazy design) can’t handle coffee beans. My second popper is skipping gears now. So annoying to be cranking and having issues while trying not to scorch beans. That said, I’ve roasted 8 pounds total so far and am in love with doing it at home. It’s insanely good compared to anything else I’ve had unless it was freshly roasted.
So I’m torn. Should I try another whirly popper or “move up”? One thing I love with the method I have is the accuracy of the roast. I can roast to increments of 5-degrees, it was awesome to taste the difference between 425 and 435 for one of the beans I roasted. Based on reading what you all have said, will I lose that accuracy with a machine like you have?
Curious to hear ideas on how you’d recommend proceeding from here.
I do start it with Weight/Program. It seems I do add time a lot… I just try to be patient and watch the color of the beans
If I remember correctly (I was drinking wine) I hit the C button in the middle of first crack but didn’t let it go the full time. I think I started the cooling cycle about half way through that last time increase. At that point I got up and walked away (more wine) so it’s possible it got into second crack as the cooling cycle started.
@capnjb interesting. I guess that’s one benefit of the stir crazy since I use a temp gun to watch the beans and heat source temp. Seems pretty accurate so far!
Nespresso is a nice variant. I had a roaster when I bought green beans, roasted them, grinded and made everything by myself, but after that, a nice coffee machine appeared in my life and made it easier.
By the way, now I use a roaster as a popcorn popper( it turned out really useful thing in my house.)
It all depends on what kind of coffee you prefer.
@Fionakev Absolutely true! We don’t brew any dark roasted coffees at home; we prefer light to medium roasts for very high quality, well-balanced beans. Jamaica Blue Mountain (Certified) and Monsooned Malabar. We use a burr grinder (various over the years) and a Braun coffee maker that is no longer available in the US (but still current in Europe) that is smaller than what is popular here, but heats the water to exactly 192 or 196 (forget off of the top of my head) degrees for outstanding coffee. Uses Melitta #4 filters and has a Brita filter for the water. Been using them since the 1990s.
wow, grave dig
and ahhh coffee
@Cerridwyn the random internet bots love to raise up old threads
To be honest, I prefer to brew coffee in a regular coffee pot. It’s just that when I tried coffee from any machines, I felt a strange taste. Maybe it was the lousy coffee. I have had this happen many times, and I decided to change the coffee I drink and replace the coffee machine with a coffee pot. Before I bought the coffee, I read on coffeemachineking.com that coffee is better and healthier. After I chose it, I was left with the smallest detail-to find a coffee pot. As it turned out, it was pretty difficult. Fortunately, my mother gave me this coffee pot, and I was finally able to brew my morning coffee in it.
As much as this seems to be on topic, me thinks it be spam.
@Cerridwyn
Yep. Two posts by bots here with 3 days.
@kawichris650
are you a bot?
Just saw this thread. Home roasting is one of the more gratifying hobbies - morning coffee being one of the perfect complements to evening wine.
@canonizer
I’ve never been able to get into that, but I do buy fresh roasted coffee, from local roasters, or when I travel.
I just don’t think I’m patient enough.
@Cerridwyn I moved to a Behmor in ~2010 (after going from pan to popcorn machine to gene cafe). It’s gratifying to get coffee from the all over the world from small importers (I purchase through green coffee buying club, which is worth googling)) and get a sense of growers/terroir, similar to wine/grapes.
Unlike wine/beer, you get to enjoy the fruits of your labor over the next few days, typically peak enjoyment comes 2-4 days after the roast.
Light roast+drip/pour over for me! Can’t beat it.
@canonizer
Smile. and yep.
I’ve bought beans roasted while I watched, took them home 2-3 days to degas. And yes terrior is as important as it is to grapes / wine. Fascinating.
Spoke a the LA Coffee expo prior to when 2020 married satan, to the guys growing coffee in California. And making it work.
Loves my coffee, Own way too many types of brewers