2009 Louis Latour Saint-Véran “Les Deux Moulins”, France
Tasting Notes
Situated in the very South of the Mâconnais, the Saint-Véran vineyards form a gilded belt around Pouilly-Fuissé. The two are similar in terms of relief and production techniques, even in their actual taste and fragrance. The area’s Jurassic chalk soil and the vineyard’s ideal exposure combine perfectly to produce top quality fruit. Saint-Véran “Les Deux Moulins” takes its name from the two watermills that straddle La Petite Grosne river. The rain that falls on the vineyards, filters through the calcareous bedrock to help feed the river as it flows away west towards the famous monastic town of Cluny. Once harvested, the grapes are fermented in stainless steel in order to preserve the freshness of the fruit. A slow, cool fermentation allows the wine to maintain its rich and concentrated flavours.
Gold coloured with aromas of muscat and raisins. It is supple in the mouth with notes of brioche and grilled hazelnuts. Nice balance and already very flattering.
Food Pairing
Shrimp and mange-tout peas risotto, Bleu de Bresse cheese, Beaufort cheese
Specs
Vintage: 2009
Grape variety: Chardonnay
Region: Mâconnais
Village: Saint-Véran
Appellation: Saint-Véran
Fermentation: Traditional in stainless steel vats, temperature controlled with complete malolactic fermentation
Ageing: 8 to 10 months ageing in stainless steel vats
Average vine age: 30 years
Soil: Jurassic chalky clay
Average yield: 50 hl/ha
Alcohol: 13%
Cellaring Potential: 3-5 years
Included in the Box
4-bottles:
4x 2009 Louis Latour Saint-Véran “Les Deux Moulins”, France
Case:
12x 2009 Louis Latour Saint-Véran “Les Deux Moulins”, France
The Latours have been vintners in Burgundy since the 17th century, slowly building a unique Domaine of 125 acres. Maison Louis Latour currently has the largest Grand Cru property in all of the Cote d’Or with a total of 71.58 acres. The vineyards extend from Chambertin in the north to Chevalier-Montrachet in the south and are solely planted with the two noble grape varieties: Pinot Noir and Chardonnay. All of the grapes from the vineyards we own are vinified and aged in the attractive cuverie of Château Corton Grancey in Aloxe-Corton. The winery was the first purpose-built cuverie in France and remains the oldest still-functioning. A unique rail-way system with elevators allows the entire wine-making process to be achieved by the use of gravity. This eliminates the threat of oxidation from unnecessary pumping of the must.
Since 1985, Louis Latour has been selling the wines from its own vineyards under the name Domaine Louis Latour. The Latour family founded the ‘Maison de négoce’, an important shipping company, in 1797, and it is still based at 18 Rue des Tonneliers in Beaune to this day. The company is unique in Burgundy in that it is still family-owned and family-run, having been passed down from father to son for over ten generations. To celebrate our Bicentenary in 1797, we published a commemorative book and were admitted into the exclusive club of the Hénokiens. This club only accepts companies that are leaders in their respective fields, remain family owned, have a history of 200 years’ experience, and still bear the name of their founder. There are only approximately 30 of these companies in the world. Maison Louis Latour ships its wines to over 60 countries worldwide. These world-class Chardonnays and Pinot Noirs can be found on the most famous dining tables around the globe.
Available States
AZ, CA, CO, CT, DC, FL, GA, ID, IL, IN, IA, KS, LA, ME, MD, MA, MI, MN, MO, MT, NE, NV, NH, NJ, NM, NY, NC, ND, OH, OK, OR, PA, RI, SC, SD, TN, TX, VT, VA, WA, WV, WI, WY
Welp, I’ve been a sucker for any and all Maconnais ever since my wife and I visited the Taizé community years ago. In for a four pack, unless anyone around PDX is interested in a case split!
How much more are you saving by buying a full case?
(Note: Tax & Shipping not included in savings calculations)
2009 Maison Louis Latour Library White - $35 = 21.20%
Imagine my excitement to receive a Rat package and pull out a bottle of Louis Latour. We were nearly there in 2018 - it’s just a short drive from Lyon - but that day we were rained out and went south instead. I’ve had several red MLL wines and enjoyed them all.
I did no research or reading before opening the (now chilled) bottle for myself, wife, and another couple around 5:30 yesterday. It’s normal for us to start a Friday evening with a citrusy cocktail (e.g. Corpse Reviver) or by opening a bottle of rose’ or white. In fact, had this not arrived for rattage, we probably would have opened a bottle of the Au Contraire Russian River Valley Rose’, which arrived this week and I have not yet tried.
Lovely golden color in the glass.
No particular nose to speak of. Perhaps a faint whiff of hay? (I’m reaching here.)
First sip really pops on the tongue. I thought it was just me but then my friend said a similar thing, “That first sip did something weird on my tongue.” I’m not sure what caused that. No other sips had that effect but it was a fun way to start.
A few sips in and we quickly recognized we were drinking Chardonnay - not a go-to grape for any in our group. I did buy the Pedroncelli recently on offer here, which I thought had some nice fruit flavors going on.
Perhaps because of its age, the fruit is very muted in this wine. I think if you like Chard that might be a feature and not a bug - everything blends together very smoothly and is quite balanced. The dryness is excellent.
We weren’t the best audience to rat this one since none of us really have the palate (and thus vocabulary) to describe the qualities of a good Chard. I hope some other rats are more in that camp and our thoughts were at least somewhat helpful. Feel free to PM (whisper) if you have a specific question…
@pupator The “pops on the tongue” thing almost sounds like a slight bit of effervescence. Which I wouldn’t normally expect in this style of wine, though some other white wines do that a bit.
2009 Louis Latour Saint-Véran “Les Deux Moulins” White Burgundy
THURSDAY:
This is my third Rat, and first white. First one never went on sale. Second one was a serviceable Sonoma Pinot Noir that I said good things about. So it was double-take city when an older, value white Burgundy showed up UPS overnight. I thought, “What? Is this some mistake?”
Saint-Véran sure can be delicious; pure, minerally, stainless-fermented Chardonnay, but I don’t think I would ever have bought this offer if I weren’t a preview Rat, or had good rattage endorsing it. You all are wise to be skeptical. My cellar has a dozen or so decaying 20+ year old whites from the Mâconnais district that have taught me a lesson about letting “value” white Burgs age too long. Saint-Véran is a 5-year proposition? Maybe 7? OTOH, Louis Latour is not an average producer.
What to do, what to do?
I opened it just a few hours after receiving it, just to see the color. It’s clear, pale straw. Fill is 100%, just above bottom capsule. No sign of darkening or oxy. No hint of cork. That’s a good sign. Quick sip, very nice, closed and bottle-shocked but no issues, and so I vacuumed it and let it rest another day from travel on the red-eye.
FRIDAY:
Color confirmed: Pale straw and perfectly clear. No visual cues of bottle age. It appears to have been impeccably stored. Perhaps a recent release from the winery’s library? Only a guess.
Aromas: Honey-lemon, light honeysuckle. Not bold or complex aromas, just nice, clean aromas. No hint of bottle age at all.
Palate: Light, exceptionally clean. White peach, honey-lemon, hint of straw or clover, mellow acidity. The biggest lift is in mid-palate. As I got into the bottle, that’s where I had some extended finish. Also, the understated acidity drifted from lemon to a bit of fresh apple (but lighter than, say, granny smith). Kind of like the apple acidity you’d find in a mellow sparkling crémant blanc de blancs.
I wouldn’t call this “austere,” exactly. People who enjoy Chardonnay from the Mâconnais and bordering vineyards will understand what I’m saying.
I could easily be fooled into thinking this is 5-6 years younger than it is. The Louis Latour website itself says this has “cellaring potential of 3-5 years.”
It takes some imagination, but here’s my opinion. Probably the only thing this wine has lost in the 10 years since release is a more pronounced acidic grip. Younger Saint-Véran would be more vibrant in that way. Still, this is shockingly good for its actual bottle age.
I don’t think this will improve with further cellaring. Look at it as a suspended-in-time gift that will deliver a slightly mellowed, but delicious and substantially unaffected-by-age, well-balanced, light Burgundy-style unoaked Chardonnay. If you buy some, drink it all in the next year. That’s my plan.
At the sub-$11 case price, if you are any kind of fan of graceful and clean French Chardonnay, this is a no-brainer.
Here’s a photo op with some “bigger” siblings I happen to have in the cellar:
@baldwino0@rjquillin
Yes nice rat! although maybe i can see the leroy bourgogne in the comparison but that Corton Charlemagne is in another league, and i think God agrees seeing that ray of light going through the top of the bottle
Probably the only thing this wine has lost in the 10 years since release is a more pronounced acidic grip.
Not sure if I’m remembering this correctly, or the attribution, but either on a tour or at a winery, Peter W. or Scott H. or could have been Clark, mentioned adding a pinch of citric acid and see what happens.
Rather sounds like Clark, but I’m not sure.
@rjquillin@ScottW58 That C-C will find a special occasion and some grilled lobster or king crab sometime in the next 3 years ($85 from WineAccess a long time ago). 92-94 pts Burghound. The Leroy is just their cheap-ass Borgogne Blanc ($50 from Garagiste fairly recently… which qualifies as cheap-ass for a Leroy these days). I probably won’t sit on it very long.
I used to know a guy in L.A. who bought 10% of the total production of Leroy Auxey-Duresses Rouge as his “everyday wine.” In the early 1990s that ran about $20 a bottle.
Had about a 1/3 bottle left from last night. It was vacuum stoppered and put back into the fridge overnight. Just poured a nice big Saturday afternoon glass at 4 PM local time. Dang if this thing hasn’t put on some weight since last night!
It has developed a bit of a polished glycerine mouthfeel, and the flavors are still spot-on. Legs up the side of the glass.
Don’t worry about this fading away on the second day open! À votre santé!
Solid St. Veran, aged 10 years, for $11/bottle? Buy cases if you drink any Chardonnay. It’s not Chablis or a Cru, and Latour is not the most exiting (and certainly not fashionable) Burgundy producer/negociant, but you would be hard-pressed to find California Chardonnay in the class of this wine (which I had a few years ago for about $14-16) at this price point wholesale let alone online/retail.
I say this as a longtime aficionado of California whites, but, at least East of the Rockies, California (and other US) whites simply don’t compete $ for $ on a price basis below the top level. Just as red Burgundy and the top whites are out of sight expensive relative to other Pinot Noir and white wines, California Chardonnay, in particular, but all California whites above the utter plonk level, are seriously overpriced compared to French, German, Italian and Spanish whites below the super-prestige level.
@rpm Having lived most of my life in Northern California and the Pacific Northwest, I didn’t realize how lucky we were in an abundance of moderately priced nice quality white wines. Recently set up a home in North Carolina and I discovered what you mean, basically “grocery store” wine and then a few higher-grade ones (but limited selection and high prices, in general). [So I’ve been buying a lot of stuff from this site to ship to North Carolina to build up a cellar (well, basement) so I don’t have to resort to the aforementioned grocery store wine!]
In the Northwest I do like Washington state Chardonnay and Pinot Gris, though they tend to have a different style than their CA counterparts. A lot of decent white in the $10-15 range in the NW. Some even sub-$10 (Ch Ste Michelle Dry Riesling, for example – of course you have to like dry Riesling)
There are a few Northwest brands with distribution in the East but just the mainstream ones and usually not the better stuff.
@pmarin I have enjoyed Washington Pinot Gris and some dry Riesling, but I think I usually prefer Oregon Chardonnay, thought it is certainly pricier. On the East Coast, the better Oregon and Washington white wines are not commonly available at all, and almost never at reasonable prices.
@pmarin Where in NC? We just moved to South Carolina, lowcountry, basically full time. A few smaller shops, Total is two hours away. Culture shock when moving from Chicago area. No wine/no health care/no good auto mechanics
@jenludwig@pmarin Asheville, drive through it often. Used to anyway and still will occasionally. Haven’t spent much time there. Planned an extended visit or two but this virus thing has postponed any having fun.
We are just outside of Beaufort, SC on the coast.
@pjmartin@pmarin and hurricanes it seems of late although nothing crazy. Well Matthew was a tad of a challenge. And not totally oblivious to the conditions here, have been hanging out in the area a bit since early '80’s.
Love us some Charleston, another playground closed, at least for us.
@kaolis “Ripe, lower acidity” actually had me a bit worried. Vintage ratings (not wine rating) for 2009 Bourgogne Blanc in general: WS 89, WA 91E (early maturing) for a wine the producer themselves give a “3-5 year” cellar potential. But my good fortune to be a Rat today, and the proof was in the seeing and the tasting for myself. This library release seems barely affected by the passage of 10 years in bottle.
@baldwino0 Nice rattage! Was thinking the same thing when I read your notes. That this seemed to defy the vintage norms. As always, proof is in the bottle.
@kaolis Thanks! Knowing that current vintages of this retail as low as $20 or so ($22-27 seems to be the “average” range), I was thinking this had to drop in the $10-15 range for there to be strong buying interest in a Saint-Véran this mature. My local buddy (who I am splitting a case with) thought closer to $15; I thought it would be closer to $10 and would be an irresistible “buy” anywhere under $12 in case quantity. It’s a flaming good value with VMP free shipping!
@baldwino0@kaolis Yeah, I was trying to reconcile the “3-5 years cellaring potential” vs the 2009 date, but now it’s starting to make sense. You have to figure WD always has a plan.
Oh this is so frustrating. I really want this, but I’m pregnant and probably won’t really be able to drink it until April. I have given away most of my “drink now”s. I have a good wine fridge/storage place. Is it worth gambling on a 4 pack?
Another thought: the reason this is available at this time at this price is likely an inventory issue for the US importers - they have money in this wine, and need to free up cash to buy newer vintages. I’m guessing that for no particular reason, they ended up with a couple or three hundred cases they didn’t sell and a review of their inventory turned it up. This sort of thing actually happens. Better far for them to sell it to WD at something close to their cost than to hold it further. It’s probably at its peak and will hold a couple of years (maybe more if you like old Chardonnay), so it’s worth buying a box to drink this Fall and next Spring/Summer when you want lighter wines.
@rpm Just what I was thinking about both this and the previous Latour offer. Seemed like an importer issue or a distributor who lost their sales to closed restaurants. There have been many excellent deals on wines that most commonly find their way to restaurants.
@klezman@rpm
Yes deals come up in many ways, funny/sad story depending how you look at it a number of years ago I bought a few bottles of a pretty expensive Oregon Pinot from wine library for maybe half the going price, a year or so later I was drinking one and it was corked so I posted that in CT. Todd the winemaker shot me a note and told me he wanted to replace the bottle! I told him that I had bought it from WL over a year ago for less than half price and it wasn’t really nesasarry, he then told me I got it for so cheap because he had fired his distributor at the time and they dumped all his wine on WL at a loss because they were pissed.
Needless to say he insisted on replacing the bottle at his expense and now I’m a customer for life
@rpm@ScottW58 Yup, bought a bottle of Bedrock (among other things) from somebody on WB. Opened it and it was corked. Posted it on CT and Morgan told me to get in touch and he’d replace it. Added in a few extra bottles to make it worth their while, it only seemed fair. (And I wanted to try more wines.)
As stocked as I am on whites (Pedroncelli Chard, Triump Chard, Jana Sauv Blanc) I can’t pass this up! You had me at Burgundy.
/giphy external-breathtaking-animal
Had about a 1/3 bottle left from last night. It was vacuum stoppered and put back into the fridge overnight. Just poured a nice big Saturday afternoon glass at 4 PM local time. Dang if this thing hasn’t put on some weight since last night!
It has developed a bit of a polished glycerine mouthfeel, and the flavors are still spot-on. Legs up the side of the glass.
Don’t worry about this fading away on the second day open! À votre santé!
I’m kinda new here. I’ve bought a few Rose cases over the summer, kinda of hit and miss. I know St. Veran to be a value region and with the great reviews, getting a case!
BTW, what is this rat tasting program all about?
@gkrivin@rjquillin through the lab rat program, we send out a bottle of wine for tasting to be reported back on to the Casemates community. It gives Casematers a little more insight on the wine and the ability to ask questions. No professional degree required. To sign up, send me your full name, ship address, phone, & email to alice@winecountryconnect.com. We will put you right into our LR database.
actually came back just to see if some more became available. Sometimes that happens!
But I agree with @rpm theory of “back corner of the warehouse” stock. Clearly this isn’t a case where the vintner will allocate a few more cases or substitute a different vintage.
Appearance
Very light yellow, brilliant, crystalline, pale gold.
Aroma
Subtle aromas of fruit (peach, pear), flowers/vegetables (acacia, honeysuckle, fern). Notes of fresh almond, hazelnut, cinnamon, butter, and sometimes honey.
Taste
A dry and round wine, often mineral. The acidity and the fat are then complemented by going crescendo: a harmonious and fresh, round, and vinous structure.
@Twich22 It will not get better from here. Even high quality chards made to age will start to fade from here. However, from reports this Chard is in good shape. I plan to have my first this evening, and the remaining 5 over the next year. No rush, but certainly no reason to wait.
2009 Louis Latour Saint-Véran “Les Deux Moulins”, France
Tasting Notes
Food Pairing
Specs
Included in the Box
4-bottles:
Case:
Price Comparison
Not for sale online, $360/case MSRP
About The Winery
Available States
AZ, CA, CO, CT, DC, FL, GA, ID, IL, IN, IA, KS, LA, ME, MD, MA, MI, MN, MO, MT, NE, NV, NH, NJ, NM, NY, NC, ND, OH, OK, OR, PA, RI, SC, SD, TN, TX, VT, VA, WA, WV, WI, WY
Estimated Delivery
Monday, Oct 19 - Wednesday, Oct 21
Maison Louis Latour Library White
4 bottles for $54.99 $13.75/bottle + $2/bottle shipping
Case of 12 for $129.99 $10.83/bottle + $1/bottle shipping
2009 Louis Latour Saint-Véran Les Deux Moulins
Not the same wine or offer, but that last 2007 Louis Latour Chassagne-Montrachet Rouge was damn tasty.
Should have gotten a couple cases.
Rats?
@rjquillin yea, I had a bottle the other night and it was excellent. I’m not a white wine drinker but might be willing to grab a few of these.
@rjquillin if that Louis Latour red shows up again I would buy 5 cases. It was incredible.
NYC I grabbed a case and will split any number of bottles.
Welp, I’ve been a sucker for any and all Maconnais ever since my wife and I visited the Taizé community years ago. In for a four pack, unless anyone around PDX is interested in a case split!
How much more are you saving by buying a full case?
(Note: Tax & Shipping not included in savings calculations)
2009 Maison Louis Latour Library White - $35 = 21.20%
Imagine my excitement to receive a Rat package and pull out a bottle of Louis Latour. We were nearly there in 2018 - it’s just a short drive from Lyon - but that day we were rained out and went south instead. I’ve had several red MLL wines and enjoyed them all.
I did no research or reading before opening the (now chilled) bottle for myself, wife, and another couple around 5:30 yesterday. It’s normal for us to start a Friday evening with a citrusy cocktail (e.g. Corpse Reviver) or by opening a bottle of rose’ or white. In fact, had this not arrived for rattage, we probably would have opened a bottle of the Au Contraire Russian River Valley Rose’, which arrived this week and I have not yet tried.
Lovely golden color in the glass.
No particular nose to speak of. Perhaps a faint whiff of hay? (I’m reaching here.)
First sip really pops on the tongue. I thought it was just me but then my friend said a similar thing, “That first sip did something weird on my tongue.” I’m not sure what caused that. No other sips had that effect but it was a fun way to start.
A few sips in and we quickly recognized we were drinking Chardonnay - not a go-to grape for any in our group. I did buy the Pedroncelli recently on offer here, which I thought had some nice fruit flavors going on.
Perhaps because of its age, the fruit is very muted in this wine. I think if you like Chard that might be a feature and not a bug - everything blends together very smoothly and is quite balanced. The dryness is excellent.
We weren’t the best audience to rat this one since none of us really have the palate (and thus vocabulary) to describe the qualities of a good Chard. I hope some other rats are more in that camp and our thoughts were at least somewhat helpful. Feel free to PM (whisper) if you have a specific question…
@pupator The “pops on the tongue” thing almost sounds like a slight bit of effervescence. Which I wouldn’t normally expect in this style of wine, though some other white wines do that a bit.
2009 Louis Latour Saint-Véran “Les Deux Moulins” White Burgundy
THURSDAY:
This is my third Rat, and first white. First one never went on sale. Second one was a serviceable Sonoma Pinot Noir that I said good things about. So it was double-take city when an older, value white Burgundy showed up UPS overnight. I thought, “What? Is this some mistake?”
Saint-Véran sure can be delicious; pure, minerally, stainless-fermented Chardonnay, but I don’t think I would ever have bought this offer if I weren’t a preview Rat, or had good rattage endorsing it. You all are wise to be skeptical. My cellar has a dozen or so decaying 20+ year old whites from the Mâconnais district that have taught me a lesson about letting “value” white Burgs age too long. Saint-Véran is a 5-year proposition? Maybe 7? OTOH, Louis Latour is not an average producer.
What to do, what to do?
I opened it just a few hours after receiving it, just to see the color. It’s clear, pale straw. Fill is 100%, just above bottom capsule. No sign of darkening or oxy. No hint of cork. That’s a good sign. Quick sip, very nice, closed and bottle-shocked but no issues, and so I vacuumed it and let it rest another day from travel on the red-eye.
FRIDAY:
Color confirmed: Pale straw and perfectly clear. No visual cues of bottle age. It appears to have been impeccably stored. Perhaps a recent release from the winery’s library? Only a guess.
Aromas: Honey-lemon, light honeysuckle. Not bold or complex aromas, just nice, clean aromas. No hint of bottle age at all.
Palate: Light, exceptionally clean. White peach, honey-lemon, hint of straw or clover, mellow acidity. The biggest lift is in mid-palate. As I got into the bottle, that’s where I had some extended finish. Also, the understated acidity drifted from lemon to a bit of fresh apple (but lighter than, say, granny smith). Kind of like the apple acidity you’d find in a mellow sparkling crémant blanc de blancs.
I wouldn’t call this “austere,” exactly. People who enjoy Chardonnay from the Mâconnais and bordering vineyards will understand what I’m saying.
I could easily be fooled into thinking this is 5-6 years younger than it is. The Louis Latour website itself says this has “cellaring potential of 3-5 years.”
It takes some imagination, but here’s my opinion. Probably the only thing this wine has lost in the 10 years since release is a more pronounced acidic grip. Younger Saint-Véran would be more vibrant in that way. Still, this is shockingly good for its actual bottle age.
I don’t think this will improve with further cellaring. Look at it as a suspended-in-time gift that will deliver a slightly mellowed, but delicious and substantially unaffected-by-age, well-balanced, light Burgundy-style unoaked Chardonnay. If you buy some, drink it all in the next year. That’s my plan.
At the sub-$11 case price, if you are any kind of fan of graceful and clean French Chardonnay, this is a no-brainer.
Here’s a photo op with some “bigger” siblings I happen to have in the cellar:
@baldwino0 Nice Rat!
@rjquillin Thanks!
@baldwino0 @rjquillin
Yes nice rat! although maybe i can see the leroy bourgogne in the comparison but that Corton Charlemagne is in another league, and i think God agrees seeing that ray of light going through the top of the bottle
@baldwino0
Not sure if I’m remembering this correctly, or the attribution, but either on a tour or at a winery, Peter W. or Scott H. or could have been Clark, mentioned adding a pinch of citric acid and see what happens.
Rather sounds like Clark, but I’m not sure.
@rjquillin @ScottW58 That C-C will find a special occasion and some grilled lobster or king crab sometime in the next 3 years ($85 from WineAccess a long time ago). 92-94 pts Burghound. The Leroy is just their cheap-ass Borgogne Blanc ($50 from Garagiste fairly recently… which qualifies as cheap-ass for a Leroy these days). I probably won’t sit on it very long.
I used to know a guy in L.A. who bought 10% of the total production of Leroy Auxey-Duresses Rouge as his “everyday wine.” In the early 1990s that ran about $20 a bottle.
@rjquillin @ScottW58
Rattage EXTRA Edition
Had about a 1/3 bottle left from last night. It was vacuum stoppered and put back into the fridge overnight. Just poured a nice big Saturday afternoon glass at 4 PM local time. Dang if this thing hasn’t put on some weight since last night!
It has developed a bit of a polished glycerine mouthfeel, and the flavors are still spot-on. Legs up the side of the glass.
Don’t worry about this fading away on the second day open! À votre santé!
Solid St. Veran, aged 10 years, for $11/bottle? Buy cases if you drink any Chardonnay. It’s not Chablis or a Cru, and Latour is not the most exiting (and certainly not fashionable) Burgundy producer/negociant, but you would be hard-pressed to find California Chardonnay in the class of this wine (which I had a few years ago for about $14-16) at this price point wholesale let alone online/retail.
I say this as a longtime aficionado of California whites, but, at least East of the Rockies, California (and other US) whites simply don’t compete $ for $ on a price basis below the top level. Just as red Burgundy and the top whites are out of sight expensive relative to other Pinot Noir and white wines, California Chardonnay, in particular, but all California whites above the utter plonk level, are seriously overpriced compared to French, German, Italian and Spanish whites below the super-prestige level.
@rpm Having lived most of my life in Northern California and the Pacific Northwest, I didn’t realize how lucky we were in an abundance of moderately priced nice quality white wines. Recently set up a home in North Carolina and I discovered what you mean, basically “grocery store” wine and then a few higher-grade ones (but limited selection and high prices, in general). [So I’ve been buying a lot of stuff from this site to ship to North Carolina to build up a cellar (well, basement) so I don’t have to resort to the aforementioned grocery store wine!]
In the Northwest I do like Washington state Chardonnay and Pinot Gris, though they tend to have a different style than their CA counterparts. A lot of decent white in the $10-15 range in the NW. Some even sub-$10 (Ch Ste Michelle Dry Riesling, for example – of course you have to like dry Riesling)
There are a few Northwest brands with distribution in the East but just the mainstream ones and usually not the better stuff.
@pmarin I have enjoyed Washington Pinot Gris and some dry Riesling, but I think I usually prefer Oregon Chardonnay, thought it is certainly pricier. On the East Coast, the better Oregon and Washington white wines are not commonly available at all, and almost never at reasonable prices.
@pmarin Where in NC? We just moved to South Carolina, lowcountry, basically full time. A few smaller shops, Total is two hours away. Culture shock when moving from Chicago area. No wine/no health care/no good auto mechanics
@kaolis where in SC? I’m in Columbia.
@jenludwig @kaolis My NC location is Asheville, so that’s the opposite end – about as far West as you can get and still be in a city in the Carolinas.
@jenludwig @pmarin Asheville, drive through it often. Used to anyway and still will occasionally. Haven’t spent much time there. Planned an extended visit or two but this virus thing has postponed any having fun.
We are just outside of Beaufort, SC on the coast.
@kaolis @pmarin
But you have high humidity, bugs and mild to non existent winters (grew up in Charleston)
@pjmartin @pmarin and hurricanes it seems of late although nothing crazy. Well Matthew was a tad of a challenge. And not totally oblivious to the conditions here, have been hanging out in the area a bit since early '80’s.
Love us some Charleston, another playground closed, at least for us.
@rpm OK, you roped me in. That’s 3 orders in the past week or so - this has to stop, as I’m only drinking two or three bottles a week.
Seems it was a decent vintage in the Macon. Ripe, lower acids.
A little background on the area:
https://www.burgundy-report.com/burgundy-report-extra/09-2017/saint-veran-village-profile/
@kaolis “Ripe, lower acidity” actually had me a bit worried. Vintage ratings (not wine rating) for 2009 Bourgogne Blanc in general: WS 89, WA 91E (early maturing) for a wine the producer themselves give a “3-5 year” cellar potential. But my good fortune to be a Rat today, and the proof was in the seeing and the tasting for myself. This library release seems barely affected by the passage of 10 years in bottle.
@baldwino0 Nice rattage! Was thinking the same thing when I read your notes. That this seemed to defy the vintage norms. As always, proof is in the bottle.
@kaolis Thanks! Knowing that current vintages of this retail as low as $20 or so ($22-27 seems to be the “average” range), I was thinking this had to drop in the $10-15 range for there to be strong buying interest in a Saint-Véran this mature. My local buddy (who I am splitting a case with) thought closer to $15; I thought it would be closer to $10 and would be an irresistible “buy” anywhere under $12 in case quantity. It’s a flaming good value with VMP free shipping!
@baldwino0 @kaolis Yeah, I was trying to reconcile the “3-5 years cellaring potential” vs the 2009 date, but now it’s starting to make sense. You have to figure WD always has a plan.
@chipgreen @boatman72 @pjmartin @marikar NE OH split?
@mrn1 I am seriously over stocked with whites, especially based on how slowly they get consumed around here. I think I have to pass
@pjmartin Understandable.
@mrn1 you don’t know me, but I’m in Cleveland and could be into a split.
@mrn1
I would take 2 or 3…
Oh this is so frustrating. I really want this, but I’m pregnant and probably won’t really be able to drink it until April. I have given away most of my “drink now”s. I have a good wine fridge/storage place. Is it worth gambling on a 4 pack?
@mtb002 YES!
@mtb002 Agree, yes. Store it well and it shouldn’t really change within a year.
@rpm @baldwino0
Ok, I found someone to share. Let’s see what giphy comes up with.
/giphy graceful-antique-puck
@baldwino0 @rpm
Ouch, sorry Mr McCormick. Bots are savages.
Another thought: the reason this is available at this time at this price is likely an inventory issue for the US importers - they have money in this wine, and need to free up cash to buy newer vintages. I’m guessing that for no particular reason, they ended up with a couple or three hundred cases they didn’t sell and a review of their inventory turned it up. This sort of thing actually happens. Better far for them to sell it to WD at something close to their cost than to hold it further. It’s probably at its peak and will hold a couple of years (maybe more if you like old Chardonnay), so it’s worth buying a box to drink this Fall and next Spring/Summer when you want lighter wines.
@rpm Just what I was thinking about both this and the previous Latour offer. Seemed like an importer issue or a distributor who lost their sales to closed restaurants. There have been many excellent deals on wines that most commonly find their way to restaurants.
@klezman @rpm
Yes deals come up in many ways, funny/sad story depending how you look at it a number of years ago I bought a few bottles of a pretty expensive Oregon Pinot from wine library for maybe half the going price, a year or so later I was drinking one and it was corked so I posted that in CT. Todd the winemaker shot me a note and told me he wanted to replace the bottle! I told him that I had bought it from WL over a year ago for less than half price and it wasn’t really nesasarry, he then told me I got it for so cheap because he had fired his distributor at the time and they dumped all his wine on WL at a loss because they were pissed.
Needless to say he insisted on replacing the bottle at his expense and now I’m a customer for life
@rpm @ScottW58 Yup, bought a bottle of Bedrock (among other things) from somebody on WB. Opened it and it was corked. Posted it on CT and Morgan told me to get in touch and he’d replace it. Added in a few extra bottles to make it worth their while, it only seemed fair. (And I wanted to try more wines.)
@ScottW58 Hamina?
@klezman @rpm
Ha I did the same thing.
@kaolis
Yup it was his Caroline bottle
Metrowest MA split?
As stocked as I am on whites (Pedroncelli Chard, Triump Chard, Jana Sauv Blanc) I can’t pass this up! You had me at Burgundy.
/giphy external-breathtaking-animal
Rattage EXTRA Edition
Had about a 1/3 bottle left from last night. It was vacuum stoppered and put back into the fridge overnight. Just poured a nice big Saturday afternoon glass at 4 PM local time. Dang if this thing hasn’t put on some weight since last night!
It has developed a bit of a polished glycerine mouthfeel, and the flavors are still spot-on. Legs up the side of the glass.
Don’t worry about this fading away on the second day open! À votre santé!
@baldwino0 Better than your ordinary Rat – it’s a Re-Rat! Thanks for the update.
/giphy dry-gainful-ant
@alexa84 a case for me^
and 4 btls for Mom
/giphy knowledgeable-immature-toy
I’m kinda new here. I’ve bought a few Rose cases over the summer, kinda of hit and miss. I know St. Veran to be a value region and with the great reviews, getting a case!
BTW, what is this rat tasting program all about?
@gkrivin
Tag @WCCWineGirl for the details, likely she’ll set you up.
@rjquillin @WCCWineGirl
Thanks!
Hi @WCCWineGirl, What’s the Rats tasting program all about?
@gkrivin @rjquillin through the lab rat program, we send out a bottle of wine for tasting to be reported back on to the Casemates community. It gives Casematers a little more insight on the wine and the ability to ask questions. No professional degree required. To sign up, send me your full name, ship address, phone, & email to alice@winecountryconnect.com. We will put you right into our LR database.
I wanted a case but now it’s sold out. Only the 4 packs are available…
/giphy lonesome-ornate-pegasus
/giphy soft-uncaring-middle
/giphy miffed-whipped-tinkerbell
All sold out now. I saw the post about only 4-packs left, but now gone too. Guess I shouldn’t have gone back to bed while deciding!
But I agree with @rpm theory of “back corner of the warehouse” stock. Clearly this isn’t a case where the vintner will allocate a few more cases or substitute a different vintage.
Please post some more budget white burgs!
I did buy a case yesterday, but am willing to split it with anyone in the usual Sioux Falls to Twin Cities corridor.
Appearance
Very light yellow, brilliant, crystalline, pale gold.
Aroma
Subtle aromas of fruit (peach, pear), flowers/vegetables (acacia, honeysuckle, fern). Notes of fresh almond, hazelnut, cinnamon, butter, and sometimes honey.
Taste
A dry and round wine, often mineral. The acidity and the fat are then complemented by going crescendo: a harmonious and fresh, round, and vinous structure.
/giphy lean-wrinkled-goat
Got our delivery yesterday and I just opened a chilled bottle. I concur with most of the rattage on this - especially love the “round” description.
Nothing pops out at ya but it’s there and all nicely melded together. I’m really glad we got a case.
@ludwigmace I split a case with someone. Tried the first tonight. Wish I’d gotten at least a case for myself.
I know nothing about white wine. Will cellaring this do anything to improve it, or will it simply fade as it ages?
@Twich22 It will not get better from here. Even high quality chards made to age will start to fade from here. However, from reports this Chard is in good shape. I plan to have my first this evening, and the remaining 5 over the next year. No rush, but certainly no reason to wait.