@javadrinker has a LABRAT Review for us.

@tercerowines is here to answer questions!

@klezman I’ll take 3.

@CorTot That’s the way. I’m texting with time2testit/redhead11. I’m sure they’re in.
But how could I still be the first purchase after 17 minutes?

@klezman thank you for the kind words. As you know, this one hasn’t even been released yet. It is still quite Young but as I posted in the video, I enjoyed it over a four day. Then it continued to keep developing really nicely.

@klezman too late to jump in?

@CorTot thank you so much! And I’m sure this won’t be the last offer that the seat for me on here

@rjquillin Pricey?! Larry sells this for $40 in the tasting room.

@klezman All his stuff in on the higher end.
At least it seems that way.

@rjquillin Maybe so, but it’s in line with a lot of what’s in Santa Ynez Valley. Much to my chagrin.

@rjquillin i’d be in for a few bottles. let me ask at work tomorrow and see if we can get an SD case-split.

@rjquillin it’s really is quite a good deal if I must say so myself believe me when I say and I love to sell my wife less expensively, but then I truly and honestly wouldn’t be making much money at all. Remember that this is a 2012 wine.

@tercerowines I hope you meant wines !!

@rjquillin North County SD here - I’d be in for up to 4 bottles if intersted in a case split.

@markgm Now THAT is funny - especially since I don’t have a wife to sell even if I DID want to Yes, yes - just kidding - and taking advantage of not auto-text-correction when typing at 30K feet last night!!!

@dbarrym hoping . . . .

@markgm I’d like to think not

@dbarrym let’s keep a bottle count on the case @klezman got, and if it gets close, and with a bit more SD interest, perhaps we can add another case for the southern extreme.

@rjquillin sounds good. I’m about out of storage space and still have to find room for the last two cases from wine.woot and last week’s KR Esoterica hopefully inbound soon.

@rjquillin I’m new here and in SD. Would be interested in a couple of bottles in a case split. How does this work?

@rjquillin @klezman I’d be in for a San Diego case split. How many depends on the interest, but I love me some tercero.

@tklivory @rjquillin @dbarrym @wei2go seems we probably have critical mass for an SD split? i’m in for three or four bottles.

@radiolysis I will gladly take up to four… email at barry (dot) mattingly at gmail for logistics of payment and the like.

@radiolysis @rjquillin @dbarrym @wei2go Splitting one or two cases between five c-mates? (2-3 each vs 4-5 each or the ability to split a mix of large & small quantities) The latter might work if we get another c-mate or someone wants, say, half a case.

I see: dbarrym: 4 bottles, wei2go: 2 bottles (a couple), radiolysis: 4-5 (‘a few’), rjquillin: ??, me: flexible

So far, anyway.

@tklivory That sounds good to me!

@tklivory @wei2go I’m North County SD. I definitely haven’t done anything like casemates before, but I’m potentially interested in joining a split. I’d be down for 2-3 bottles.

@tklivory I’m flexible - target is 4 but will split at least two and up to six if necessary.

@tklivory @radiolysis @rjquillin @dbarrym @wei2go

Splitting one or two cases between five c-mates? (2-3 each vs 4-5 each or the ability to split a mix of large & small quantities) The latter might work if we get another c-mate or someone wants, say, half a case.

I see: dbarrym: 4 bottles, wei2go: 2 bottles (a couple), radiolysis: 4-5 (‘a few’), rjquillin: 2~4, 3 optimal, tklivory: 4

So far, anyway.

Seems we’re well over one case, with min-max 16~22 as of 17:00 in our TZ; need to read the entire thread first in case anything has changed further down.
I’d be good to grab one of them. North county is a stretch from east county, hopefully one of us is closer.

I’ll monitor for consensus to purchase.

@rjquillin from what I’ve seen @fring & @dbarrym as definitely in North County. I’m central/south SD. Not sure where @radiolysis & @wei2go are. But I’d say that 2 cases is more likely than not at this point, with six c-mates. With that in mind, having two different groups of splits makes sense if the logistics work out.

@tklivory i’m in central SD, just off the 8. With work pooling, i’m up to needing 6 bottles. Would anyone want to join on the other six? @rjquillin @wei2go @fring @dbarrym ? I can put the order in as well.

@radiolysis Hmm, between you, me, and @rjquillin it sounds like we three could do a case by ourselves (6 + 3 + 3). I’d be down with that, if @rjquillin is willing.

That would leave @fring @dbarrym & @wei2go to split the second case in North County (though I’m not sure where @wei2go is located.

Edit: Hmm, second case is still a wee short in that case. @fring is 2-3, @dbarrym is 4, @wei2go is 2. Am I missing someone from SD?

@tklivory If needed, I’ll take 6 bottles. I can order or will paypal to whomever does order.

@tklivory I’m in central sd so would prefer to down here if possible rather than going up to north county

@dbarrym If we’re the only two North County folks, I’ll probably just grab a three bottle pack and call it good. But I’ll hold off till tomorrow before putting in an order.

Well, harrumph, the problem is geography, obviously!

I know @rjquillin is likely the farthest from NC, so maybe shift the split to @radiolysis @rjquillin and @wei2go (6-3-3 or 6-4-2) for the central SD case, and @barrym @fring and myself (6-3-3 or 5-3-4) for the NC case if whoever orders the NC case (@dbarrym?) doesn’t mind holding it for a week or two until I get a chance to go pick it up on a weekend.

Just a suggested split, of course.

(Time: 21:30 in our TZ)

Oof, missed this comment thread before ordering a 3-pack; we’re in Escondido. Next time I’ll have to pay closer attention.

@tklivory @rjquillin @radiolysis @wei2go @barrym @fring

shift the split to @radiolysis @rjquillin and @wei2go (6-3-3 or 6-4-2) for the central SD case,

and @barrym @fring and myself (6-3-3 or 5-3-4) for the NC case if whoever orders the NC case (@dbarrym?)
(Time: 21:30 in our TZ)

Kinda dropped out yesterday PM.
I work just east of 805 north of Mira Mesa if that helps distribution logistics.
Could easily order or split from here, willing to hold and don’t need payment until picked up.

That’s my hand.

@rjquillin (and everyone else) I think we’re close to decent 2-case split. Just waiting for everyone else to chime in today. Hopefully we’ll be able to work it all out.

@rjquillin, not sure how you quoted, but i think i like that split.

Since i’m getting half of the case, and head Mira Mesa-way quite frequently, i’ll get the case for you (4 bottles), @wei2go (2 bottles) and myself (6 bottles), C.O.D.

@wei2go and @rjquillin please confirm and i’ll push the button. I work near the merge and live south of 8. so i’m as central as possible.

For the north-county crew, @dbarrym @fring @tklivory, can you purchase one between you all for that side?

Since we all have each others names, i think this will be more smoothly next time.

@radiolysis Hopefully more smoothly, yes. Also noticed @jawlz tagged in (late) on the thread, so maybe keep them in mind for later splits.

So @dbarrym & @fring – what logistics do we want to use for the NC case split?

@radiolysis
Confirmed for me.
PP work for payment, I hope?

@rjquillin, not sure how you quoted, but i think i like that split.

Since i’m getting half of the case, and head Mira Mesa-way quite frequently, i’ll get the case for you (4 bottles), @wei2go (2 bottles) and myself (6 bottles), C.O.D.

@wei2go and @rjquillin please confirm and i’ll push the button. I work near the merge and live south of 8. so i’m as central as possible.

@tklivory I can place the order, just need quantity (want to get the case price) and participants - @fring and I have connected, if @tklivory or other want in on the NC SD buy, Email me at barry (dot) mattingly at gmail. cheers

@dbarrym I will email soon, but I don’t have access to gmail during most of the day. (Casemates yes, gmail no, go figure )

@rjquillin @wei2go : case is purchased! PP is fine. Ron, i’ll DM you at the old Mothership so you have my email address.

@rjquillin @radiolysis confirmed for me. I work in UTC and live off the 8 and 125.

@dbarrym I have found an officemate that will take 2 bottles, so there are 4 to 6 bottles available for @fring or anyone else in NC SD.

@tklivory So the NC SD case buy group is complete with @dbarrym and @fring /giphy benevolent-laden-creature

@dbarrym Sounds good!

@rjquillin @wei2go the case started moving and claims to be at my FedEx tomorrow. Once i pick it up we can coordinate handoffs.

@radiolysis Great! Looking forward to it!

@wei2go are you on woot? if so, can you direct message me with your email address? that way i can coordinate dropping your bottles off. I picked up the case today so probably some time next week?

@radiolysis hi! I’m not on woot… is there another way I can send you my info?

@wei2go hm. you mentioned working near UTC. Would it be inconvenient to meet at the coffee shop in UTC one morning? we can share contact info at that time to speed this up on the next shared case.

@radiolysis @radiolysis
…meet at the coffee shop in UTC one morning? we can share contact info at that time to speed this up on the next shared case.

This could work well for me as well.
Is there a single coffee shop?

@rjquillin @wei2go looking at the UTC map, there are two that are open early – the standalone Elixir and then the E-Bar in Nordstrom. I’d say Elixir is our better bet.

Would tuesday morning work – say 8am?

@radiolysis @rjquillin, Elixir works for me. Tuesday 8/6 at 8 am.

@dbarrym NCSD Casemates, shipment is at FedEx, will pick up tomorrow afternoon (am returning from biz trip tonight), will let you know when I have the shipment in hand, will be in touch tomorrow to arrange transfer.

@wei2go @radiolysis
See you two tomorrow.
Black casemates octopus T and jeans.
Who do I owe, and how much, for this?
paypal work?
pm my username here on WW or @ gmail

Elixir Espresso Bar
Westfield UTC
#9003, 4545 La Jolla Village Dr, San Diego, CA 92122

@rjquillin I’ll be there at 8 am!

@rjquillin @wei2go I’m hanging out here already and sipping on crazy hot coffee. Probably the only one you’ll see at this hour

@radiolysis @wei2go @tklivory
Done deal. Great to see some faces, and hope to actually get a gathering together some time down here.

@rjquillin @wei2go @tklivory i would definitely enjoy a gathering! I’ve been trying to make some of the recent LA gatherings, but it’s so darn far and the dates are only mildly cooperative.

@radiolysis @wei2go @rjquillin Local is always better when you’re in SoCal anyway.

@radiolysis @rjquillin @tklivory, great meeting everyone. Looking forward to more case splits.

@klezman I really could do without these giphys and img’s.

@rjquillin That one is an image, not a giphy, fwiw. It’s the first time and probably the last time I’ll do that particular thing.

@klezman whatever, but the shooter is pretty hot.

@rjquillin She looks a lot like a buddy’s ex-gf.

@klezman I think you can edit and refresh the comment and it may change the image if you don’t like it

@klezman Depending on the breakdown…we’re in for the case split as well. But if you guys already divvied up, well, I guess there’s always Sparky.

@rjquillin If you don’t like the image or gif that comes up, click edit and re-save the message (you don’t have to actually edit anything). You’ll get a different image every time (usually). You can keep doing it until the editing timeout.

I agree that this one is unfortunate and not very fun. If you’d like to delete it, perhaps you can prevail upon @thumperchick to help out since you didn’t know you could change it. I’m sure meh wants to be as accommodating as possible to all our new casemates compadres.

@klezman love it, my friends!

@klezman In for 2 if available.

@klezman perhaps just a rumor, but supposedly if you edit that original post with giffy call, it will look for another image. I haven’t tested it myself. (I’m also not responsible for whatever comes up next!)

@klezman Yeah that KR thread became very difficult to read among the overuse of the giphy images. It was basically unreadable on mobile.

@klezman I’d be in for a bottle or 2 if you haven’t allocated them all already

@SSteve The /image command will always pull the best match. So editing won’t change those. The /giphy command is randomized and will change with an edit.

Funny how people think I dislike that image. It’s a lot better than much of what the other things bring up. If I ever do that again, though, I will put it in a separate comment that will get hidden with time.
So we’ve got @cortot for 3, @merrybill for 2, @rjquillin for n, @javadrinker, @swizzel for 1-2, @time2testit for m (3 or 4?), and I want some (3 or 4). Looks like maybe a second case is in order?

@Thumperchick Thanks for the correction.

@klezman @markgm

So we’ve got @cortot for 3, @merrybill for 2, @rjquillin for 2~4, @javadrinker, @swizzel for 1-2, @time2testit for m (3 or 4?), and I want some (3 or 4). Looks like maybe a second case is in order?

If more SD chime in, I can do the deed for down here.

@rjquillin Thanks RJ. I tempted Kyle but no luck!

@CorTot Apparently he’s all into bubbly now? He’s been hiding from these parts, too.

@klezman I’m in the 3-4 range as well. Who’s buying the case this go around? Of course I suck at actually getting around to seeing my dear imaginary internet wine friends so maybe I’ll just buy the three pack and avoid waiting five years to finally getting my stash for a slight discount.

@javadrinker I already bought one case - first sucker, as it were. I don’t think anybody has mentioned buying a second case yet. Total bottles is 15-18 with this count.

OK, here’s the current count:
@klezman: 3-4
@time2testit: 3-4 (?)
@cortot: 3
@merrybill: 2
@javadrinker: 3-4
@swizzel: 1-2
@losthiwayz: 3-4?

That brings the total to 18-23. Looks like Ron is sorted with the SD crew. It makes the most sense for me to distribute to @time2testit, given we live 5 min apart. I think @swizzel, you said you’re in West LA/Culver? Aside from that, let’s get solid numbers so the rest of y’all can be sure you’ve got your wine. So that’s a definite 6-8 bottles from my case spoken for.
@CorTot was next, so that’s 3 more
@merrybill was next, so that 2 would fill the case

If a second case gets purchased we can re-sort the assignments based on proximity. But that means somebody else needs to purchase the next case.

@klezman we are in for 4 if that helps.

@klezman Is there not a way to edit messages once posted here? Anyway, we are flexible, so it can be 3 for us from the case if that helps someone else.

@time2testit Only during the first 5 minutes.

@time2testit Yeah, unless a second case happens we should just share one of the bottles, each cellar 3, then cortot gets his 3 and merrybill gets his 2.
So who else is buying? @losthiwayz? @javadrinker? @swizzel?

@klezman I see I got dropped, as I should have, so just confirming I’m in on one of the two SD cases and you guys have these to yourselves.

@klezman I went ahead and got a three pack. But that doesn’t mean I’m out of an additional case share if someone buys and needs to spread the load. Whoever buys the second case, let me know and I’ll pitch in as needed.

@javadrinker @losthiwayz
Looks like nobody else bought the case. Sorry lost Once they sort out the case sharing infrastructure it’ll be far easier.
We know @dave and @snapster are working on it, but today it cost a case.

@Twich22 thank you so much for the support! I’ll be curious to hear what you think when you unscrew a bottle or two

@Twich22 I’m down for a couple. This enabling is going to be trouble.

@trifecta love it! Cheers!

@Twich22 Thanks!! I’ll take a few bottles…

@Twich22 I’m in for 2-4 depending on how many you have un-spoken-for right now.

@schripsemas Woo hoo!!!

@Twich22 I’m in for a bottle if you have one to spare

That should cover the case

@Twich22 Awesome!! Thanks for picking up the case… I’ll take a turn at some point as well on another autobuy…

@Twich22 If there is any left at this point I would take 1 or 2.

@Redstone_ It seems like all bottles are accounted for but I might be able to get you a bottle depending on if someone else wants less than I am anticipating.

@neerak i’ll take 3 or 4

@neerak If you get it and get stuck with more than you like… I fly to Houston from DFW every couple months and wouldn’t mind taking a bottle or 2 of your hands if we can work it out.

@tercerowines that is lack of communication

@javadrinker thank you for the honest review of the wine. That would expect nothing more or less from you than that! As I said, this really still is quite a young wine. You saved me for Day 2 or day 3? Keep me posted please cuz I think that you’ll find that it’s going to develop for quite some time.

@javadrinker Did you splash-decant it into an Erlenmeyer?

@klezman Nope - just let it open up on its own . .

@tercerowines Ha, I wish we still had some left to taste after the first day. We shared with family as it seemed the decent thing to do. You try to say no to my dad’s sad puppy dog eyes as you try to swirl and take your lab rattage seriously.

@javadrinker I hear ya - but if you listened to my podcast or watched my video, you’d hear how the wine evolved over a 4 day period last week - and truly kept getting more expressive with more open time . . .

@tercerowines Well dur…if I had seen the video before my pop n pour fun I might have held back a little. But seriously man, the youth of the wine explains a lot about our experience on this one. We have faith in your skillz so have no doubt that purchases will be made and wine will be had!!! By me. And my wife if she asks politely.

@trifecta the good old days indeed, my friend! This one really is worth getting the shot of you sitting on the fence

@tercerowines and now i see there is no auto-correct here at work

@trifecta Really miss dark and delicious, was a great weekend!

@bsevern That indeed was a great weekend - and Jo Diaz is a saint for running the PS I Love You organization for as long as she did. The ‘challenge’ with niche groups is that if they stay that way, sometimes it becomes monetarily challenging to sustain them - and that’s what happened there. Bummer . . .

@tercerowines I thought regulatory issues squashed it, or at least were a major factor.
We had some great times there, and visiting Scott Harvey.
Wonder how soon we’ll see an offer from him…

@rjquillin Have no idea about the regulatory stuff, my friend. I do know that they were cracking down on the food purveyors, and a tasting like that without a lot of food is d-a-n-g-e-r-o-u-s!

@trifecta that 06 Grenache has developed beautifully - had a bottle a few months back and dug it! Of the wines mentioned, I’d open the 08 Climb next . .

@chaosdreamer ummmmmm, welllllll. . . .

@chaosdreamer
Is that Paul Rudd?

@mtb002 Love that dude!!!

@tercerowines Casemates was clearly VERY excited that I placed an order for your wine!

@chaosdreamer As am I Thank you - I truly and honestly appreciate it!!! Cheers!

@jwill1981 I hope so! Would love to share some tercero love back with some Steeler fans!!! (one of my brothers went to Carnegie Mellon and lived in the area for quite some time!)

@kapok6 Oh come on, just go for that case! You won’t be disappointed! Goes great with the wonderful BBQ found in your area

@tercerowines I actually haven’t been able to find any BBQ since I moved here in 2011 that I found particularly mind blowing. If I was able to buy 3 bottles at the $21 shipped range i’d be on it, but bank account says no at the 12 bottle minimum. Perhaps if there is a next time.

@kapok6 Bummer - it’s been awhile since I was there, but I do remember having some killer BBQ . . . The price really is killer if I have to say so myself. This is a wine that I normally retail at $40, and it saw over 2.5 years in older FR oak. I put a lot of time and energy hand crafting this, and though I’d love to see my wines offered even cheaper, I truly and honestly can’t afford to as I wouldn’t make any money myself . . .

@tercerowines Certainly not saying it’s a bad deal either way you slice it. I hope you didn’t interpret it that way. I’m sure the wine is great. Just a matter of finances. Hopefully someone here in DFW gets some so I can buy a bottle or two off of them.

@kapok6 I was just scanning myself. Just bought a case on the last deal for a split so don’t think I can do a case this time when I’m only interested in at max 2 bottles myself. What are are you in?

@kapok6 Thanks for the reply - and I did not take it that way at all!!! I’ve got some pretty thick skin - you HAVE to if you are going to make it in this industry! Cheers

@tercerowines Thanks for the offering… Hope it works out where I can score a couple bottles… open one soon and lay one down.

@MSUMike Hope so too . . .

@MSUMike Keller

@kapok6 Thanks. will tag you in the DFW thread. I’m trying to keep track of all the DFW peeps I talk about splits and new offerings but don’t want to tag all 18 people every deal.

So did anyone in DFW go in on any? Would love a bottle but jusn’t couldn’t do it myself.

@thelecroy Again, hoping so

@thelecroy , I would like to. I’m trying to figure out how to send you a private message, like you could on woot.

@PatrickKarcher They don’t have that running yet, so it would seem your options are to PM each other over on woot, or post a burner email address here. (If you post one that looks like it might be a personal email, the mods will delete it as a precaution.)

@thelecroy, I sent you private message over on the woot. I’m in or 4 or 6 bottles.

@thelecroy I’d be willing to take a couple bottles - not sure I’d go for 4, but if that is that only other offer. PM me over on woot if you want.

@WkdPanda sent you both a message on woot

@tercerowines

And yes folks, I’m here to answer any questions - or just to rattle some cages

No questions? No one want to try to rattle my cage? Come on folks - get that coffee flowing and let’s go!!!

So, is the OTR on the Stelvin comparable to cork to allow about the same aging profile the dinosaurs here are used to?

Yeah, I’m trolling for discourse/discussion.

@rjquillin Great question, my friend! I use a saranex liner on all of my reds (and a saratin on my whites and rose). Why? Well, the saranex allows for a bit more OTR than the tin liners, and I want a bit more ‘development’ over time with my reds versus my whites. All of that said, I’ve opened some of my 2006 and 2007 reds recently, and they certainly have evolved - but not too quickly. Cheers!

@rjquillin whats OTR stand for? Oxygen transfer rate or something?

@Twich22 Bingo.

this too. I found interesting.

@kasandrae Come on folks - help em out here

@tercerowines why do you think this particular wine takes so long to develop in bottle? It seems like GSM at 5 years old should be pretty drinkable even with a short decant. What’s the age ability of this wine based on your current knowledge?

@CorTot Great question - and one that does not have a single answer per se. What I can tell you is that my winemaking ‘methodology’ allows for a slower development of wines than others. One of the key things that I do - or actually do not do - is ‘rack’ a wine during barrel aging. Most wineries ‘remove’ the wines from barrel after secondary fermentation is complete to take them off their ‘fine lees’, clean the barrels, and usually add SO2. By doing so, though, in essence you are ‘decanting’ your wine - and I really do not want to do that. I want to leave my wine as ‘tightly wound’ as possible so that when I’m releasing my 2012 (my UPCOMING vintage, by the way), the wine is drinkable but with upside potential. My 2011, for instance is more ‘open for business’ now. Also, this wine has a touch more syrah in it as compared to the other varieties, and that is a variety that usually rewards those who wait a bit longer Hope that answers the question - but if not, please continue to ask away. And do let me know if that was clear. Cheers!

@tercerowines Very interesting. thanks for the detailed answer. love to learn about the process of how things are made.

@MSUMike Thank you! And the ‘challenge’ is that there really are few ‘absolute’ answers when it comes to wine and winemaking - and if a winemaker claims that he or she HAS the ‘one’ answer, please call BS on them!!!

@tercerowines OK…we can start the debate here…screwcaps!

@klezman what about them?

@klezman @jml326
See above troll…
Work is getting in the way today.

@jml326 Some people have, shall we say, very strong opinions about screwcap vs cork.

@klezman Sure, I don’t like screw top beer and I don’t like clear and green bottles. But I understand why those things can be bad.
Have winemakers reached a point where cork, composite cork, rubber cork, or screw tops are similar in keeping wine fresh for longer periods of time?

@jml326 I too am interested. I have always rejected corks. As I have said before, there is nothing sexy about the ‘crack’ of the bottle opposed to the ‘pop’ of the cork. Maybe it’s a ritual I’ve enjoyed along with the cutting of foil. Nothing against the juice sold here because I actually am interested in trying this GSM. But I must say, MY instinct to pull the trigger is lessened.

I also am curious about the costs of cork vs screwcap? I would imagine cork costing more with their names on them. I don’t know anything, that’s why I’m asking.

@TechnoViking I can tell you from vacation in Portugal and visiting cork factories the cost of cork, good cork, can be high. So it could be a cost thing. Cork is a living product. Yes it’s been harvest and will not grow, but it does keep breathing. So some beverages might be better or worse depending on storage.

What else am I missing?

@jml326 thank you!

After reviewing my first comment on this thread, I mis wrote some stuff(the need to correct comments posted over 5 min). It’s obvious I’m for cork. I meant I have always rejected scewcaps.

@jml326 I’m sure @tercerowines will jump in, but from what I’ve read it’s actually about getting the right air exchange rate (or oxygen transmission rate, Ron’s OTR comment above). Since cork is porous it allows a very slow air exchange with the wine, affecting the age. It’s not hard to make screwcaps completely airtight. That could affect the aging curve, as (in this extreme case) the oxygen-dependent aging processes would cease while the oxygen-independent aging processes would continue apace.
But you certainly don’t need to worry about cork taint!

@klezman Well, I do have some strong opinions about why I choose to use screw caps for all of my wines - white, rose and red - and have since my first releases back in 2006. It does not mean that I am anti-cork at all; it’s just that as a producer of a consumer product, I need to be able to stand behind my product, and if I used natural cork, it would make it that much more difficult to do so. Why? First off, we all know that a certain percentage of wines under natural cork are ‘corked’ - i.e. they will smell like wet cardboard or damp basement. Two challenges - 1) most folks have no clue what a corked wine smells like and 2) we all have different thresholds for picking up this fault. Above and beyond that, corks are all natural - which means the cell structure of each cork is unique; which means that the amount of oxygen that gets in and out of each cork is unique; which means that these wines will not age in a ‘consistent’ manner; which means that I could be like other wineries and tell you to chock up an ‘off’ bottle due to ‘bottle variation’, but I choose not to . . .

@jml326 ‘Freshness’ has as much to do about the chemistry of the actual wine and use of SO2 as any type of closure. Those ripe wines that can found throughout CA - in warmer areas like parts of Paso and Lodi, for instance - generally are going to have much higher pHs. That alone will make it difficult chemically for that wine to hold on for a really long time without going south . . .

@TechnoViking Cost used to be a major factor why wineries moved out of natural corks and into synthetic corks a few decades back. The problem - those plastic doohickeys did not work very well . . . The cost of the screw caps that I use on my current bottlings is about the same as some of the less expensive natural corks - but, cost has nothing to do with my decision to use what I use . . .

@TechnoViking Don’t think about being ‘for cork’ - be for a closure that is not only steeped in tradition, my friend. It should be about what’s INSIDE the bottle, not the packaging or closure per se

@mpcwine726 guess you better just DRINKING them!!!

@tercerowines but of course

@pjmartin Thank you sooooo much!!!

@mpcwine726 I am still pouring the 13 Roussanne in my tasting room - it truly is getting better and has years and years of life ahead of it - seriously. The verbiage blanc is in a ‘funky’ phase right now - I think you can continue to age it, but if you wanted to open it, make sure to give it a good swirl and wait perhaps 30 minutes for it to ‘open up’, just as you might a red. As far as the others go, nothing is ‘over the hill’ yet . . .

@tercerowines thanks Larry! Good to know about the Verbiage blanc.

@therealsutano Hope you can make it work!!!

@neilfindswine Hey stranger! Hope all is well in your world, my friend!!!

Hey @neilfindswine good to see you around here!

@jhkey Thank you sir; you too!

@kaolis or can do SC too, Beaufort area

@kaolis I was just in Greenville over the weekend - so darned beautiful!!!

@tercerowines I’m a little closer to the coast but yeah SC is a nice neck of the woods. And I’ve been hiding here lately to get away from Chicago area where it’s been so cold, until just recently, my poor pup couldn’t put her paws on the ground. A pup with no time to poop is a sad pup!

I guess that doesn’t work how I think it should work.

@tercerowines I give up… just go ahead and rap.

@tercerowines Congrats on being the most engaged winemaker here so far!

@tercerowines I’ve still got half a dozen bottles of Larry’s Syrah, Grenache, Cuvee Loco and Verbiage, all 2010. These are so good. His Grenache is one of my favorite wines; the aromas are killer. This is an easy buy if you like Rhone varietals. Jump in, you won’t regret it.

@markgm Larry is good. He’ll give Clark (WineSmith) or Ed from Pedroncelli a good run.

@markgm thank you! I’m just doing what I always do, my friend. If you are not engaged in a process like this, it kind of defeats the purpose of having your product on a site like this with a community such as this one. At least that’s my viewpoint.

@pjmartin thank you and I appreciate the kind words. The great thing about those 2010s is that they still have a very long life ahead of them. None of them are anywhere near past-their-prime. And I’m glad that you love the aroma zon that Grenache. That variety is truly hauntingly mesmerizing to me.

@rjquillin and I believe in a very different way from the two of them

@tercerowines back to the screwtops… How do you select your closures? What transmission rate do you target? Different for reds than whites? I wish someone out there would have done half their lot in cork and half in screwtops so that it could be an apples to apples comparison. I personally haven’t noticed much, if any, bottle development in wines under screwcap. There is one in particular that I’ve probably had 15 bottles of over the last 5 years and each one is the same, which is good and bad.

@tercerowines Clark especially I would imagine.

re: the Stelvin/cork thread, I’ve got some 2007 Buena Vista Syrah Carneros they put a twist-top on.
Last I opened one was in '15, guess I’m due for another, and it was amazingly fresh, not at all like an 8-year old bottle. I’m not sure these are aging at all, or at least quite slowly, and wonder how they may have been different. Need to find one again for an update.

I’ve got a few of your bottles (that I know of) from earlier woots tucked away as well I’d like your drink/hold opinion on as well.

• 2009 Cuvée Loco Larner
• 2009 Grenache Blanc Camp 4
• 2009 Grenache/Mourvedre Rosé
• 2008 Petite Sirah
• 2008 The Climb
• 2007 The Climb

Good to see you here again.

@rjquillin I finished my last bottle of the 2007 Buena Vista Syrah in November 2017. My notes say it was fresher and better than the previous bottle. I don’t have enough experience to complete an opinion, but I haven’t had a corked or even bad screw cap bottle. I am doing better than ‘reported average’ on cork closure bottle faults, but hate when I experience one. I will admit that I enjoy the cork pulling, but in the end would give that up for 100% good bottles.

@pjmartin You make a CT note?

@rjquillin most of my CT TNs are not public- a habit I should modify.

@MSUMike well - you really do NOT want to hear me rap, my friend I can wraggle though

@trifecta As I mentioned above, I use different liners in my screw caps for different types of wines. I have always used saranex liners in my red. This is a polymer liner that allows in a bit more oxygen than the saratin liners I use for my whites and my rose. As far as your question about the same wines bottled under both closures - Plumpjack has being doing just that with their high end reserve Cabernet since the 1997 Vintage - for nearly 20 years. And the Wine Spectator has done comparative tastings between the two. The challenge - these have to be done ‘blind’ to rule out any bias . . .

@rjquillin And of the wines mentioned, I would drink up that 2009 Grenache Blanc sooner rather than later. You’ll notice it will have a distinct ‘petrol’ aroma to it to go along with the fruit - like an aged riesling. And drink that 09 Rose as well please - and let me know how both of these show. Of the rest, drink the 08 reds before the 07s or 09s - they were a little richer and not quite as austere and therefore will probably give a bit more immediate gratification. But by all means - DRINK MY WINES!!!

@pjmartin Interesting about that 07 Syrah - not one of mine, though Did you taste it blind or not? If not, do you think you may have been ‘biased’ to find it ‘not aging as much as a wine under cork’? Just have to ask . . .

@tercerowines Never said that the bottle was not aging as much as a wine under cork. My note said I was surprised to find it fresher than the previous bottle of the same that I had drank. Bad memory, different biological day, different meal, more tastes under my belt, all probable reasons for the comparison. And blind, gosh no. I am way to green at this wine thing for that. Have only done that twice or so, wayyyy to humbling. I am just enjoying the road and the experiences while on it.

@pjmartin Thanks for the clarification - truly appreciated. And I agree about blind tasting - it is way too humbling. I like to use it in cases like these, though, when ‘bias’ really does play a large part in how we ‘react’ to something. ‘Freshness’ will be kept intact or a longer period with screw caps, but if you read up on the experiences on the PlumpJack wines, you’ll see that they do certainly develop - and eventually ‘catch up’ with the wines under cork - without any possible TCA of course

@tercerowines I’m willing to read just about anything as I learn more about wine.

@jml326 Ask away . . .

@tercerowines OK, I’ll bite. What is your favourite Rhone variety (a) when grown in the Rhone, (b) when grown in SBC, and © when grown elsewhere?

@klezman Ooooh - that’s a good one. ‘Favorite’ is tough because I truly and honestly dig so many of them. As you probably know, on the red side Mourvedre and Grenache have always been my faves - Mourvedre either from Bandol or in a Beaucastel blend and Grenache either in an old world CdP blend or better yet, Rayas or Pignan. On the white side, I have really come to love and respect both Marsanne and Roussanne - so lovely, so mesmerizing - but both take patience and lots of it. I think all of these varieties have potential in SBC - but it not only has to do about where they are grown but how they are handled. I am NOT a fan of new oak on either Grenache or Mourvedre - and not as much a fan of the ever-popular riper styles that are all fruit and nothing else. I use the term ‘winemaker terroir’ here - let the beauty of the grapes stand up front and don’t ‘mask’ them in ripeness, in oak, or even in blends some of the time. That is NOT what most winemakers think of when thinking of these 2 varieties. How’s that for a start?!?!?

@tercerowines

On the white side, I have really come to love and respect both Marsanne and Roussanne - so lovely, so mesmerizing - but both take patience and lots of it.

I got my first good introduction to these from Peter Wellington, and now search them out.

@rjquillin Not too many example of Marsanne being produced in CA. I now make one - my 14 is truly a special wine; Qupe continues to set the standard. As far as Roussanne goes, Qupe, Tablas Creek, Alban, Terre Rouge - those are my go to’s (and I make one, too) . . .

@tercerowines Are these examples in a more reserved style?
Do any stylistically compare to Peters’, if you’ve had either of his?
And where in the spectrum would you position yours?

@rjquillin Can’t say I’ve ever had Peter’s to compare with, but Qupe is somewhat the ‘gold standard’ in CA. In fact, they were the first to bottle a varietally labeled Marsanne in the US - in the late 80’s.

@rpstrong now now - different strokes for different folks. We don’t all smell, taste, and differentiate things in the same way . . .

@tercerowines I’m sorry, but maraschino liqueur vs cherries? I have to stand my ground. From Wiki:

“A maraschino cherry is a preserved, sweetened cherry, typically made from light-colored sweet cherries such as the Royal Ann, Rainier, or Gold varieties. In their modern form, the cherries are first preserved in a brine solution usually containing sulfur dioxide and calcium chloride to bleach the fruit, then soaked in a suspension of food coloring (common red food dye is FD&C Red 40), sugar syrup, and other components.”

An utterly artificial product, albeit tasty in the right places.

In contrast, the liqueur is distilled from Marasca cherries. It has about as much in common with maraschino cherries as Grande Marnier has with orange marmalade.

[I was so upset about this that I had to pour a dram of Luxardo to calm me down.]

@rpstrong You, my friend, are quite funny . . . And THAT is the way to go about this - explaining in detail the difference. That said, some folks STILL will not be able to differentiate between the two - just human nature.

@tercerowines Sadly enough, such people are out there. Also sad is that I already stretched my post-Christmas budget to cover Friday’s offer - your sort of limited offering is why I’m with this group.

Maybe next time?

@rpstrong wrong answer (just kidding) . . .

@tercerowines BTW, you spurred me into planning an an almost forgotten bottle of '07 Mathis Grenache for dinner tomorrow.

@rpstrong Let us know how it is please!!!

@tercerowines Oh, I know it pleases, it’s the last of a three pack that I Wooted back in 2011.

@rpstrong Oh man, I wish I still had some of that. Hey @WineDavid49, let’s get him back here too!

@rpstrong Luxardo Maraschino cherries and Luxardo Liqueur Maraschino are both made from Marasca cherries. Just sayin’.

@NightGhost OK, I think it’s fair to say that I haven’t tasted ‘proper’ Maraschino cherries - only the artificially produced garden variety.

If I wasn’t saving my money for wine, I’d give them a try.

@rpstrong There are some very nice dark cherries for much less. I’ve found them at specialty grocers and Trader Joe’s. Not Maraschino, but probably great with this wine.

@NightGhost Thx, but I’m gonna start with the original. Not quite now, but they’re on my wish list.

BTW, I also saw TJ’s dark cherries (in light syrup) listed at the big A.

@InFrom Hope you can make it happen

@tercerowines I can always buy a 3-pack, if it comes to that.

@InFrom I would take a couple if you pull off a case split.

@hscottk I’m looking to jump in on somebody’s order. Taking delivery and arranging distribution is not in the cards for me on this one.

@dodohead Great question! I’m not one to hold stuff for too long - unless I intentionally ‘hide’ it to rediscover later Instead, open a bottle, pour a glass, give it a big swirl, and see what it’s showing. Either follow that glass through dinner and after dinner, or pour yourself a second glass. Save the rest of the bottle for Day 2 and see how it’s developing. Just don’t leave the bottle out in a warm place. Based on the bottle I had last week, it is still quite young and it’s best days lay ahead - but is still quite enjoyable with a little patience - just don’t be discouraged if it does not show much upon opening. Make sense? Ask away any further questions - but please open a bottle sooner rather than later when they arrive . . . and thank you

@tercerowines so this is a drink today/ this year wine. What helps to determine it’s rackability? Is it grape variety?

I’ve never had a cellar, nor do I keep wine much past month, except a few bottles my wife and I purchased the day I proposed. Doubt we’ll ever drink it it’s more sentimental.

@jml326 Nope - not what I said. My wines certainly have age-ability and will continue to evolve for quite some time. That said, because I keep my wines in oak for as long as I do - in this case, 28 months - they become more ‘approachable’ than if I had them in oak less. Therefore, they can be enjoyable now with a good decant OR you can lay them down for awhile. The decision is really up to you - and to what type of enjoyment you want to have. The only important point I would make - don’t set wines aside too long that you want to ‘enjoy and cherish’ - because each day is worth opening up something special . . .

Just don’t leave the bottle out in a warm place.

@tercerowines what do you consider to be a “warm place”. Is room temperature fine? Cellar temperature? Fridge?

@Twich22 I would consider sitting out on the counter in the kitchen in direct sunlight a warm place - or on top of the fridge - but if your house stays cool all year round, then those places may not be too warm Anything below 68 or so would be fine IMHO.

@javadrinker Well . . . you can certainly find wines coming out of our area in that price range on a daily basis from medium to larger size wineries - not ‘tiny’ ones like me A few to look for: Jaffurs SBC Syrah; Au Bon Climat entry level Chardonnay and Pinot Noir; Qupe wines; The Pairing from Jonata. There really are quite a few in that sub-$30 range for sure. Smaller wineries like me, especially ones that age their wines as long as I do, simply can’t afford to sell wines on a regular basis that cheap. My wine club always gets a 20% discount on purchases (yep, this price is cheaper than what they can purchase for - but I passed along the link today to them to make sure they don’t miss out - and I do offer club members larger discounts from time to time as a show of ‘thanks for their support’. Does that make sense? I mean, you know that you can always find quality wines under $30 by going to your local wine shop and asking them about Loire wines or Languedoc or Spanish wines - wines where the government supports the industry monetarily. That does not happen here . . .

@javadrinker Plus - I’m just so cute and funny

@tercerowines That’s the only reason we buy m’man.

@javadrinker It had to be SOMETHING

@tercerowines So Scott Harvey used to tell us that retail = wholesale x 2 and wholesale = costs x 2 in turn (give or take). How do you come up with your required bottle price to make a reasonable living and what if that is more than what you think you can get? (I know you line-price your reds and whites, so just assume average pricing works.)

@klezman You mean I’m supposed to make a living doing this? Say it ain’t so!!! Pricing remains quite tricky for me - I don’t have all the answers - seriously. Retail is usually FOB X 2 which is NOT the same as wholesale X 2 per se. If I sell wine within CA to a retailer, they will usually mark it up between 25 and 40%, depending upon the store. The X2 is usually if I sell wine to a wholesaler out of state, who then takes a piece and sells it to a retailer. Hope that makes sense . . .

@jmdavidson1 I think I remember hearing something about next week or so? Bueller? Anyone else know better than I?

@jmdavidson1 where I don’t know for sure but the first offer shipped 2 days or so after closing and should be to me on the 24th.

@jml326 I thought I remember it saying early next week, but I could be wrong It will take me a few days to consolidate all and get into the hands of casemates - but I’ll make it happen as promptly as possible!!!

@jawlz Thanks for the kind words. I will say hi to Maeapple for you - I still see her often, and you can to the next time you visit by stopping in at Refugio Ranch. As far as the Rose goes, you’ll have to go through me directly on that one

@tercerowines We miss Maeapple too! Say hi for us as well! Also, it’s been ages since we’ve been up there, what with the wee one and all.

@kasandrae Come on folks, help is needed here!!!

@tercerowines I don’t NEED help…already bought a case. I was just offering to share

@WkdPanda Bandol certainly is under appreciated. A few of the ‘challenges’ of those wines - 1) they take time in bottle to develop, and most folks are impatient and 2) they tend to produce wines that have a fair amount of ‘funk’ in them, again something many don’t appreciate.

By the way, I also make a 100% Mourvedre Rose a la Bandol roses - and it’s pretty killer

@losthighwayz Thanks for the kind words - my honor to be on here!!!

@tercerowines is this the restaurant in Pasadena?

@tercerowines Being very inexperienced I’d say it’s my store’s write-ups, scores, region, and price.

@jml326 Thanks for the reply - greatly appreciated. Where do you live and is your ‘store’ a larger chain one or a smaller independent? Just curious . . .

@tercerowines Baltimore. I shop at 3 or 4 places depending on where I am for the day.
Total wine is the biggest, Hunt Valley Wine ( which is interesting because I think Wegmans owns 95% of this place now), Canton wine and spirits is my local go to, and Friendship Wine & Liquor a little out of the way, but if I’m up in this area they are good people.

@jml326 Thanks for the reply. Here’s a ‘challenge’ about in-store signage - it’s aim, of course, is to make your purchase and not to ‘personalize’ the process. My advice - get to know a single employee in each of these stores and see if you can ‘trust’ their opinions or not by giving them a shot or two at suggesting things . . .

@tercerowines The ‘nice’ thing about Total is that they open bottles all the time to try, and the employees who write reviews have their pictures attached. If you see them pouring samples or stocking shelves you have a face to put to the review. But their selection is large and overwhelming. It is probably why I’ve explored beer and whiskey/bourbon more.

@jml326 Yep, ‘overwhelming’ is a challenge in our industry - as is the explosion of craft beers and distilleries - withOUT the pompousness that the wine industry tends to put up front and center unfortunately . . .

@tercerowines I rarely take flyers on unknown producers anymore, but when I do it is typically price driven and evaluating the variety/alc%/pH/etc. Selling wine online is tough, and I would think producers have to deeply discount in order to get their name out there. The goal being to get repeat customers who pay closer to retail.
With my racks stuffed for years now, I rarely buy things I haven’t tasted first unless they come highly recommended. Formats like w.w. and casemates are the best way, particularly with labrat bottles, to get people to jump in (IMO).
Scores mean nothing to me (zilch).

@tercerowines the micro beer industry has a leg up. I can buy a 12 oz bottle to try for 2 or 3 bucks. I don’t have to invest in a 6 pack or case.

@trifecta Loving the interaction, my friend! Do you folks use CT as a ‘gauge’ of what others think? And do you really ‘geek out’ on all of the scientific stuff? What does a pH really tell you? Even alcohol levels? You KNOW that with the new tax law, there’s been a chance in labeling laws, too, right? Cheers . . .

@jml326 Very true indeed - though there are plenty of breweries now producing 22oz bombers that are just as or even more expensive than wine!!!

@tercerowines You are right, but I can get a good idea of ‘who they are’ by buying 12oz bottles. I grew into loving small release bombers. One of my more local is Tröegs and Springhouse. I just wish there was a better way for me to try your wine locally in a smaller bottle. Maybe I just need to keep going to my stores when they have tastings and try as many as I can then find an Untapped app for wine.

Thanks for spending time with us by the way.

@jml326 Where are you located? I’m trying to get ‘out and about’ as much as possible these days. Also, get to know other wine drinkers in your area via this site, MeetUp, tastings at the local wine shop, etc. The ‘costs’ of wine go down when you get a group to pitch in Cheers!

@tercerowines Many here use CT on a regular basis. I use it daily (ish). Also, many of us do ‘geek out’ on all the scientific stuff. While pH/alc don’t tell you anything with certainty, they can provide supporting info. For instance, if I see a pinot that clocking in at 15.5 and pH at 3.8, I’m not going to buy without tasting it. I didn’t know about any change to the labeling laws, but when I’m buying online I hope that the producer is reflecting the real stats.

Forums like this allows for additional questions about whole cluster, yeast methods, malo methods, etc…

On that note, personal preferences on:
Native vs Selected yeast?
Whole cluster?
Extended Maceration?
Bleed off?
Innoculate for malo or rely on that stinky old barrel room?
Sulfite levels?
That should keep you busy

@tercerowines You need to come to the Seattle area! Once this casemates group there gets off the ground with a couple meetings, we could probably plan some kind of event around your visit.

@tercerowines

Do you folks use CT as a ‘gauge’ of what others think? And do you really ‘geek out’ on all of the scientific stuff? What does a pH really tell you? Even alcohol levels? You KNOW that with the new tax law, there’s been a chance in labeling laws, too, right?

I personally like the lab notes, and factor them into a purchase. If all I have is AbV, no TA or pH, your chances of a sale diminish significantly.
Knowing the blend, and sources is a huge plus.
CT is at best spotty, unless you know the palate of the TN author; many I do trust.
Drink dates; again, throw them out unless you know the author.

Enlighten us re: the new label laws if you would.

@tercerowines I’m in Baltimore MD

@trifecta Love the geeking out so here goes:

I inoculate all of my ferments. Yeast has a job to do and I need to make sure that I go from grape to wine in a more ‘predictable’ way. I have done some native ferments - just prefer inoculating.

I have ‘transformed’ my winemaking such that all reds since 2014 (and many in 2013) are 100% whole cluster, foot stomped by me alone, and I’m in each 1/2 ton bin for about 15 minutes vigorously trying to break as many clusters as I can.

Not a huge fan of extended maceration - I feel it actually tends to ‘fine’ a wine (i.e. remove tannins and other things) rather than add more stuff (equilibrium and all).

Since I do 100% whole cluster, I do not bleed anything off. Used to back in the day to make my rose but not any more.

Used to religiously inoculate for ML but have not since 2010 or so. It gets done on its own, but just takes longer. The risk is with really warm springs - you don’t want the wines to oxidize before hitting them with SO2.

Sulfite levels? Dependent upon pH of the wine - and yes, I LIKE SO2 because I DON’T like making vinegar

Any more?!?!?

@jml326 Gotcha - well hopefully I’ll be back in your area within the year - but for now, head down to DC - lots of great wine shops and winos I’ve got a wine club member who just moved there - he’ll have plenty of my stuff!!!

@rjquillin I’ll get back to new labeling laws later - gotta jump in shower and drive 3 hours for my winemaker dinner I’ll keep checking in though - and remember to remind your friends about my offer please!!!

@tercerowines
Ok. So I find this impressive and intriguing “foot stomped by me alone”. Did you try other feet and they weren’t as good? Do you train in the off-season to ensure your feet are ready? Strength training? Sensitivity training?

@vaaccess Quickly - two reasons why just me:

1. Liability - I get stung or bit multiple times each year by bees and yellow jackets and don’t want it to happen to others.

2. One of my favorite movies ever is Big - if I can stomp grapes ‘for a living’ and ‘never grow up’, I’m one happy guy!!!

@tercerowines totally respect both reasons!

@tercerowines thanks for all the activity.
Great learning opportunity with the new community.

@tercerowines I use CT heavily, however there’s lots of wines I come across with zero notes. The thing with CT is you need to look at what is written in the note and ignore the score.

@time2testit I believe @klezman reserved some for you.

@time2testit @losthiwayz
There’s a post up higher that I’ll try to find and tag you in as well. There’s approaching enough for two full cases. I’ve purchased one already.

@klezman Great thanks

@klezman this format is driving me effing crazy! Not sure where i stand with the split, if any

@tercerowines Thanks Larry! Bring on the Grenache and PETs!

@trifecta Grenache, maybe - pets are no longer in my arsenal - though I still need to release my 2013 at some time (and I have a few cases of my 2011 left) . . .

@tercerowines What??? That’s so sad. Not even blending with it? Keep us posted on the 2013 release if it’s going to be our last chance at it.

@trifecta PS is not an easy variety to find in SB County - and not easy to grow in the style in which I prefer. I don’t like it when it’s too acidic since the tannins are then magnified; and I don’t like it too ripe or it gets flabby . . . that said, you’ve gotta try my new Cinsaut and Carignane - new directions, my friend - but still rhone to the bone

@tercerowines Send me some, I’ll give it’s shot

@tercerowines Opening 2008 The Climb tonight. I’ll try to take notes, but it’s been a long day. Cheers.

@losthighwayz you know how to contact me, correct?!?!

@losthighwayz Next time order yourself the case and deal with the split logistics! There were 4 of you waiting for somebody to pull the trigger…

@Foobarski so where are the notes?
Better late…