Wine Cellar Advice - Repair, deal with it, or get a new one?
3So back in 2007 my closet was overflowing and the little fridge I bought quickly filled up. Like it took a week. DOH!
I went on Craigslist and found a killer deal. A 440 Bottle Vinotheque, worked great, just needed to get it from the person that day. It was like $800 and the person and bought the house, with the cellar in it and they didn’t drink wine. So the wife wanted it gone, I scored big time.
Fast-forward…Three moves later, I still have it. In the last move, things didn’t go well, mostly because I let someone else move it instead of doing it myself. sigh In one area, the door doesn’t seal and warm air gets in. On top of that, the compressor will make a sizzling noise while it’s cycling like once every hour or so.
So summer I unplugged it because it was too noisy for my guests who were staying in the same room as the cellar and we noticed water on the floor…Upon further investigation, we discovered that nearly the entire back wall was frozen, solid. (Sorry, the picture isn’t auto-rotating after upload.)
First of all, ugh…I hope none of the wine was damaged by being so cold for an unknown amount of time…Though I don’t think it was THAT long. So far, everything I’ve drank since was fine!
Would you expect that much ice to build up just because of the seals being compressed? I’m concerned it’s a bad sensor or something, but maybe it’s the seal alone. Maybe it needs coolant?
I called Vinotheque a while ago to find out what the seals would cost, it was like hundreds of dollars…I want to say $200-$300. The new sensor would be at least that as well, if not more.
I’m concerned that performing any repair, except for maybe trying to do my own seal repair, is probably not a good investment. I’m concerned that this will become a cellar pit, sucking in lots of money. Living out here in VA, I had called around to find out who might work on something like this, everyone said they would not…
In the mean time, I got a temp/humidity sensor that ties into my weather station that I already have…so I’ve started to monitor it. I am hoping that at a minimum the temperature fluctuations will be limited since the cellar is mostly sealed. I know that temperature fluctuations are the worst thing for stored wine. Right now, it’s hovering around 62 and 47% humidity…I haven’t had it long enough to see how much it fluctuates week to week, though intraday seems to be pretty stable.
Anywho…wondering if anyone else has struggled with something like this. Really don’t want to spend much on any solution, frankly, I’d rather use the money to buy wine and am not intentionally building up a collection for epic aging…This is all just a side-effect of @winedavid49 providing good deals on great wine. Meh.
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Looks like your evap coils are at the rear of the box.
With a failed seal you’ll have air transfer, it’s not the warm air, it’s the water vapor in the air, and if the humidly in the air is high enough it will condense on the cold surface. So, replace the seal. I did mine when I refurb’d a used box I purchased. Don’t recall where I got the seal, but I’m sure google played a part. Your seal looks to be magnetic and seals against a ferrous strip. Mine was the same. They will fabricate whatever size you need.
It’s getting cold; unlikely you need refrigerant.
If it is cycling and maintaining temp, the controller is likely fine as well.
Get the ice out and see how the temp holds, but without the seal fix, expect more to build up in a high humidity environment.
@rjquillin Appreciate that. It’s definitely not humid now, but when it did that this summer it was certainly humid.
When I last had it on (it’s been off since summer) the temp was air temp was cold in the bottom and hot in the upper regions.
Regardless, sounds like I should move forward with a seal replacement, and then re-assess. I’ll google for sure, but if you can remember where you got yours made or if anyone else has a recommended maker/supplier, I’d love the recommendation!
@vaaccess With the additional temperature gradient data, I think I’d fire it up and see how the temperature stabilizes. If you have controller/compressor issues, it could get pricy.
If it’s only a seal, you may just make some ice but all else would be good.
BA Refrigeration
The brain kicked in…
@rjquillin Thanks for the link.
I agree that it’s a smart move to give it a whirl and see how things stabilize. I did have to bang the compressor a bit to get it going, probably not a good sign.
While I would agree in a freezer situation that having the ice build-up is just an annoyance, I’m concerned about the back of the bottles sitting in ice, and the reality that the front of the bottle won’t be as cold. That should mean that internally, the wine would be “flowing” as the heat is exchanged from the front to the back, etc…
That said, I’m already not thrilled with the temp fluctuation I’m seeing with it turned off.
So, it’s probably worthwhile to do the seal just to keep it more stabilized, regardless of the outcome with the compressor/sensors/etc…
@vaaccess Under one degree!? You’re golden.
When it’s loaded the thermal mass of the bottles/wine will move even more slowly. Were you to instrument the wine (water) inside a bottle with a probe and recording meter I’d expect only tenths of a degree variance. Does it chill well to the mid 50’s? What kind of a duty cycle you seeing on the compressor?
Wait. That’s off? So just daily internal fluctuations?
But with bottles inside. Under one degree is not an issue.
Turn it on and see what it does.
@rjquillin another question, given the situation, do I want the condenser evaporator on? It’s a separate switch.
And yeah. That was just the ambient temperature inside. One reason it was stable is that the air temp was around that inside and outside so not a big deal. It’s about to get cold again, though. Summer is my biggest concern.
The cooler temp itself is driven off of a probe in a bottle that I filled with water. I don’t have a way to test the internal temp with the app. Yet. Hahaha
I’m guessing the ambient temperature will drop well below the 63 I have it set at as the fluid inside the bottle gets to temp.
@vaaccess
This will be a wag, but it sounds like a heating unit that evaporates water that has condensed on the coils and been collected somewhere, and upon evaporation would add humidity to the box.
Mine (the condensate from the evap coils) drains into a pan I have to empty/drain when it gets full.
@rjquillin yeah mine has a pan in the back under the coils that hang off the back of the cabinet. I just wasn’t sure if it would help or hurt. No biggie.
Ambient temperature is plummeting. Down to 59 inside…will probably take a day or so to stabilize.
@rjquillin Alright…It’s definitely chilling! Happy to see it down to an air temp of ~50 degrees, seems as though that’s where the fridge wants to keep it for now as I saw it climb and then go back down again. Also including pics of some other mechanics inside of it in case anyone has any specific recommendations or concerns to share. After things stabilize, I’ll pull the temperature bottle and test the liquid temp using a temp gun to see how it compares to the thermostat temp I’ve selected.
I would like to humbly convey my extreme jealousy.
Pay for the repair. That plus $800 is still a great deal, and you’ll have a wine cooler that is not only ship-shape, but also arouses extreme jealousy in ghosts and other winos.
@NightGhost haha…yeah. Definitely not complaining! Set up a search on the Craigslist app. They pop up every once in a while here, maybe you’ll get lucky! Though I think the situation under which I got mine was pretty perfect!
Yeah, but to fit it in my cellar, I would have to kick out my son’s band equipment. And it’s pretty cool that their band, which formed when they were in junior high, is still playing when they’ve finished college. So…I’m…not…complaining…see?
@NightGhost Cool to support your son, a definite priority…Some day?
From all the ultra cold freezers at my work is also add look into circulation. I know nothing about your fridge, but in refrigerators you tend to have some kind of fan or blower to help circulate the cold air.
Does this ice formation stay consistent from top to bottom?
@jml326 Ice is more prevalent at the bottom. And, I have the circulation fan on to help keep the temps more stable throughout the cooler. In theory. The fan could actually exaggerate the issue I guess since it forces more airflow. Maybe I should cut it off until the seals are fixed, as I think about it leaving it off should reduce the internal air pressure and may reduce the impact of the bad seals.
I bought one of these off of ebay local for ~$400, and it works. However, I did find it one day with an internal temp of ~70 degrees and a big block of ice on the internal cooling coil, to the point that air circulation internally was being blocked, and the unit was continuously on. I do not look at it all that often, so unsure how long it had been that way.
Turns out we had had an extended spate of plus 90 degree weather, and the house does not have air conditioning. I turned the unit off, managed to remove the cooling unit from the cabinet, took the cooling unit outside and let it all melt away. I then reinstalled it and turned it back on. It worked, but then I broke the second rule: don’t try to cool a full cabinet from room temp all at once. Ice began to build up again as it struggled to cool the full cabinet down to operating temp. Fortunately, it didn’t plug up all the way before operating temp was reached (took at least a day).
System now operating normally.
Ugh. Well, after it stabilized at 50 for a bit, it then proceeded to get colder and colder. It was down to 43 when I finally pulled the plug. I also pulled out the temperature bottle and used a gun, the internal bottle temp was 45 or so.
It would seem as though the thermostat / temp controller / probe is the culprit at this point since it’s just chilling and chilling and chilling without stopping.
@rjquillin / @JOATMON – anyone else…Thoughts?
I’ll also call Vinotheque (or whomever owns them now) and see what advice they can provide…
@vaaccess My only info that I have heard is that dealing with Vinotheque will be expensive. They will offer to either fix your unit or sell you a replacement. Neither is cheap.
@JOATMON yeah. I’ve talked to them before to replace a hinge, they are good at extracting money…
@vaaccess gimme some time while not at work to think…
You could always get a separate temperature controller to control the compressor.
@markgm Yeah, I’d be fine trying something like that. Any idea how I do something like that? The Whisperkool replacement controller is $250 + shipping. They don’t provide any schematics, so I’m not sure what wires are what, not sure how I’d hook up something else. If it helps, here are pictures of the wires going into the cooler and the “bad” controller:
@vaaccess this looks to be little more than a power supply with a few additional tidbits.
It’d be good to find the actual temperature sensor and see what it connects to.
@vaaccess I was thinking about something like Johnson Controls makes, but that might cost as much ($60) as actually replacing the thermostat on the unit. I use one to control a freezer so it can lager beer (the built in control can’t be set high enough).
@vaaccess What’s the exact model of yours?
@markgm I have a Vinotheque QT500 with 10B style doors…
I’m just going to go with their replacement unit… It’s not worth all this effort to figure out a work-around…
@vaaccess Gotcha. I wonder if it’s a stuck relay. If you put the probe in an ice bath, does the unit still run? Looking at your temp chart, I don’t see the unit going into defrost mode, and the instruction manual states it does so regularly.
@markgm And in theory, that relay or similar should be in here, right? It seems as though the compressor is “dumb” in that it runs when this tells it to run, and stop when it tells it to stop. The Condenser never stops running that I’m aware of…Except when there was a momentary hold in the temp, I’m wondering if the condenser itself got hot or something and paused for a bit…
@vaaccess The relay appears to be hidden behind the cord in your picture (the black box). I’m not sure how handy you are, but if you have a multi-meter you could test it for continuity.
@vaaccess And yes, you’re right. The compressor will run so long as that box tells it to. That should be the brains of the unit. When the thermostat reads hot, the relay engages and provides power to the compressor. When it’s too cold, the relay opens and kills power to the compressor. It should also have a timer in there (assuming I found the right manual for your model) that shuts off the compressor for 5 minutes every 90 minutes of runtime.
@markgm Well, I know enough to be dangerous…I had my volt meter out earlier, I was wondering if the temperature probe cable had a broken wire in it, so I cut it and started to test for continuity through the cable. If I was lucky, I’d just need a new cable. But, but tested fine. I’ll just bite the bullet and get the new fancy one they have. Appreciate all your help!
@vaaccess
This is likely the sane and easiest approach, but likely not the least expensive.
Hopefully they ask for no more than a Kronos.
Nice box, treat it well.
@rjquillin Alright…Got the new control unit installed, the system is running, which is a good sign since this appears to be the brain of the unit. Happy to see a nicer digital interface versus the analog one from before…better alarming/monitoring/etc. Also still using the same water-probe bottle as before, though my wife did put it out with the recycling, but I was able to rescue it!!!
@vaaccess NICE test bottle!
Wouldn’t want to lose that one.
@rjquillin @vaaccess
How is your system running a year later. I have the exact same unit with the exact same problem, two inches of ice on the back. I suspect it is the same issue as a tech came out to fix and simply took the controller out and stuck the bypass on permanently, so always on and no defrost cycle. Hope yours has been a success. If so I will go with the PDT PLUS.
@rjquillin @vinnywine it’s been running like a champ. The compressor nor the front was the problem, just the controller!!! So happy that was it and wish I would have traded it out earlier! Of course, YMMV!!!
@rjquillin @vaaccess
Happy to hear of your success. I don’t think the compressor on mine is the problem, new one two years ago. Front gaskets seem to have a firm hold. Its got to be the temp controller. Bypassing the controls can never be the right solution, only if you are trying to test short term. Wish me luck, PDT Plus it is!
@rjquillin @vinnywine
/giphy good luck
Facing a wine cellar repair? Discover expert advice on whether to repair, deal with the issue, or opt for a new one.
Hi, I want to buy a fridge for groceries but also with a function for storing homemade wine, or at least as much as possible intended for this. Prompt options, I think over these https://www.bestadvisor.com/side-by-side-refrigerator. What do you think?
@Ivan1606
I’m afraid I don’t have an opinion on your question, but I’d wager it’ll get more attention if you post it as a new topic.
@InFrom okey, on days i’ll write new topic, and mb found some info
The Vinoteques are mechanically very simple and easy to self-repair…don’t be afraid to buy an older unit. I have a 400 bottle unit that I bought in the early 90’s, when the compressor finally died 10 years ago I replaced it (and the condenser, etc) with used refrigerator parts (non-Vinoteque, obviously) I found on Ebay, together with a new thermometer/sensor and temp controller sourced from Granger. One thing I found out was that cleaning the dust, cat hair, etc that builds up on the condenser every few years helps extend the life of the compressor! (The 400 is in the garage and gets exposed to greater temp swings and dirt/dust, unlike the smaller 170 bottle unit I have in the house).
We need to do everything we can to restore it. It is necessary to take into account several factors, this time and money, if it will be more expensive than buying a new one, then there is no sense.