The nose is full of roses with hints for strawberry and honeydew melon which I accented with a tiny amount of aromatic Acacia wood which imparts an enticing honeysuckle element. Though bone dry, the lushness in the mouth gives an impression of sweetness despite crisp acidity. One expects from your basic Grenache a simple strawberry aroma, but here we have in support of its bright fruitiness an intriguing collection of melon, droughty “garrigue” herbs, saddle leather and Asian spice. The mouth is medium-bodied with fine tannins and energetic minerality.
Serious dry Rosé is the cornerstone of French culture because it goes deliciously with everything. Bring it to dinner when you don’t know what’s cooking.
Vintage and Winemaker Notes
2018 Grenache Dry Rosé, Bates Ranch, Santa Cruz Mountains
There is, in my view, no other region in California that compares to the Santa Cruz Mountains for producing wines of distinctive terroir expression. Something about its mountain soils and mix of sandstone and greenstone, plus the lush surrounding herbs that encircle its tiny vineyards and impart their own distinctive “air-oir” gives each vineyard a unique stamp. The area is moderated by heavy Pacific influence but also lifted above the fog so that it enjoys plenty of cool direct sunlight, the perfect recipe for the grape to express itself.
The Bates Ranch is located in the sheltered Corralitos region just south of Ridge Vineyards, and is famous for their Cabernet Sauvignon, while their Grenache, less well known, is also quite wonderful.
We have a lot of fun with this fruit, producing a red and a Brut Zero Blanc de Noirs méthode champenoise as well as this provençal-style dry Rosé.
Specifications
Vintage: 2018
Vineyard Location: Bates Ranch
Corralitos subregion, Santa Cruz Mountains
5th leaf of experimental planting
Winery: WineSmith Cellars
Maker: Clark Smith
Founded: 1993
Location: Sebastopol, CA
Clark Smith is an MIT drop-out who wandered out to California in 1972 and sold wine retail in the Bay Area for several years, where he acquired a love of Bordeaux, Burgundy and all things French and observed first hand the California winery explosion in the 1970s. After a three year stint at Veedercrest Vineyards, he secured enology training at UC Davis and spent the 1980s as founding winemaker for The R.H. Phillips Vineyard in Yolo County. In 1990, he founded WineSmith Consulting and patented a group of new winemaking techniques involving reverse osmosis, spinning off Vinovation, which went on to become the world’s largest wine production consulting firm over its 17-year history.
Frustrated with California’s winemaking trends, Clark started WineSmith Cellars in 1993 as a teaching winery to make Eurocentric wines to explore traditions beyond the mainstream, expanding for his winemaking clients the range of possibility for California fruit. Choosing to create long-term partnerships with committed growers rather than growing his own grapes, Clark has become an renowned expert on Cabernet Franc, having vinified twenty vintages from a wide variety of sites.
Teaching at Napa Valley College gave him access to the Student Vineyard for Faux Chablis and his Pauillac-style $100 “Crucible” Cabernet Sauvignon. From Renaissance Vineyards in North Yuba County he has made a sulfite-free Roman Syrah and also produces a Pinot Noir from Fiddlestix Vineyard in the Santa Rita Hills in a delicate, age-worthy Côtes de Beaune style. These wines are vinified in an ancient beat-up warehouse in Sebastopol, California.
WineSmith wines are noted for their longevity, classic balance, structural integrity, minerality and understated soulfulness. They often are aged extensively prior to release. When drinking a WineSmith wine, always ask yourself “What is this wine trying to teach me?” Clark is a vocal advocate of living soil and graceful longevity, and generally avoids excessive oak, alcohol, or extended hang-time. He is not shy about employing new tools when they are needed, such as alcohol adjustment to bring fruit into balance or micro-oxygenation to build refined structure, but always fully discloses techniques which are controversial and is outspoken in explaining his rationale.
His book, Postmodern Winemaking, is the culmination of four decades of reflection on wine’s true nature.
Video:
Available States
AZ, CA, CO, CT, DC, FL, GA, ID, IL, IN, IA, KS, LA, ME, MD, MA, MI, MN, MO, MT, NE, NV, NJ, NM, NY, NC, ND, OH, OR, PA, RI, SC, SD, TN, TX, VT, VA, WA, WV, WI, WY
How much more are you saving by buying a full case?
(Note: Tax & Shipping not included in savings calculations)
2018 WineSmith Cellars Grenache Dry Rosé - $30 = 16.66%
Clearly there has been some date confusion here, with the absence of both rats and the always entertaining Clark @WineSmith @WineDavid49
lookin’ at ya…
Rose is divided into “Silly” (so aptly termed “blush”) and “Serious”.
Serious Dry Rose is the cornerstone of French culture because it’s cheap and goes deliciously with everything. This one is from (IMHO) California’s best winegrowing region, the Santa Cruz Mountains, so it has extra layers of complexity.
Please don’t think of this as just a summer quaff. This is my go-to wine throughout the year, and will benefit from age.
Good to be back. I hope the lab rats will chime in with their views.
@rjquillin Good question. I certainly advise my winery clients never to make a rose with elevated alcohol - they’re terribly bitter. So I’m not above watering, and I personally like alcohols in the 12s. But this particular vineyard comes in quite low naturally for some reason, so I didn’t have to do anything and ended up with 12.9% and perfect balance just by chance.
@chipgreen By all means.
Joni Mitchell - Big Yellow Taxi
Gipsy Kings - Allegra
Stevie Wonder - I Just Called To Say I Love You
Jackson Browne - Fountain of Sorrow
Garth Brooks Wild HOrses
Ruben Romero - Romanza
John Denver - Sunshine On My Shoulder
Bob Dylan - Mr. Tambourine Man
Simon & Garfunkle - America
Mozart - Eine Kleine Nacht Muzik
Johann Strauss - Waltz of the Blue Danube
FYI: Clark (WineSmith) is an Auto-Buy with us!! Loved everything we have received from him over the years, which is about everything he has ever offered.
Thanks Clark, for the Case!! >>ungrateful-fearing-rogue<<
PS: Sorry, we don’t share Clark’s creations, seems like we just never have enough
@DickL For me, it depends on the environment and the intended function. Generally I will give a light chill, maybe 50 F. If it’s a hot day, I might go to 45 F. If I’m having a steak indoors, I might not chill it at all, i.e. 68 degrees.
Clark is an autobuy - plain and simple. The best California rose I have had previously was also a Clark Smith project (Two Jakes) and I expect this to be every bit as good, if not better.
If he really only made 197 cases of this, this sale will not last long. Glad I checked in this morning…
In for a case. SWMBO won’t be happy to see me carry another box into the house (which will hopefully soon be moved down to Missouri), but as long as it arrives within the estimated delivery window I can say I’m going to use some for our daughter’s wedding (that should cut me some slack!
/giphy flawed-lone-panther
WineSmith? Grenache? Dry Rose? Even pre-rattage, don’t want to miss this one. We’re building up quite a cellar grouping of Clark’s wines now, but this is a new one for us. Advise getting in before the sellout!
The question is not whether resistance is futile, but whether there’s any point in it. Did I have the Two Jakes Rosé that someone mentioned above? It doesn’t ring a bell, and CT says no. Looking forward to trying Clark’s Rosé.
Giving standard summer shipping one more shot, since my two 7/3 deliveries arrived ok.
The two cases of Rosé I’ve shared with office-mates this summer (the Floodgate and the Aerena) are almost gone (both excellent, I’d re-buy immediately). The half case of Gruet Brut Rosé is down to a bottle or two. I’d better re-stock in the pink department.
@InFrom Happy to report that the standard-shipping gambit worked out ok. Unlike my first summer shipments this year, this wine only spent 5 hrs overnight in St. Louis (as opposed to a full day last time), and shipped out early Thursday morning. Delivered to me in the Bronx just a little over 24 hrs later. The bottles are room temp. Can’t complain.
@InFrom
I guess WD must have dropped the hub in WNY. I was not getting the benefit of that anyway but was happy for those of you that were. I am all about the 2-day shipping with ice packs and world-destroying styro for an extra $15 but YMMV!
@chipgreen Actually that hub is in eastern NY, just outside of Albany, a couple-few hours north of NYC. It appears he’s still using that for the WNY shipments. Loading it off the reefer in Rensellaer, then truckin’ it back to Buffalo.
@chipgreen Yes, for me, but a WNY dweller reported they’re still getting summer deliveries via Rensellaer, like last year. I’ll look for that post, I think it’s in the summer shipping thread.
@chipgreen@InFrom As much as I appreciated that route I’ve wondered about the economics of sending my wine 300 miles east of Buffalo then trucking it back overnight. My first two orders after summer shipping started did go to Rensselaer but the next two went by reefer to St. Louis, sat overnight, took a 12 hour day trip to Grove City, OH and an overnight run to Buffalo. The case that was dropped off at 10 this morning at a Fedex store measured 71F inside the styro when I picked it up at 4pm. It was warmer than that in the store so I guess I can’t complain about the new route for me with standard summer shipping.
Clark, how does this compare to the rose you bottled 7-8 years ago? Can’t recall varietal or year but used to order directly from you when you first came on woot
@winesmith yes! Pennyfarthing. If I recall correctly, it was a nonvintage. Where was the cab franc sourced from? For this offering, would you say the Grenache is “brighter” than the CF?
@losthighwayz Yes, Grenache is brighter. It always delivers a strawberry note, where CF, while it may offer a little cherry, is more inclined to savory herbs and cinnamon, all very low-toned and integrated. This particular wine also has the Bates Ranch signature ripe melon and some honeysuckle aromas from the acacia wood. The palate energy from SCM soil adds to the impression of brightness but also makes the wine a bit tight in youth.
@losthighwayz As I recall, that Pennyfarthing Cab Franc Rose was from the Ironstone Vineyard in Acampo.
We always bottled NV in those days because Americans were treating the vintage like an expiration date (as they do Sauvignon Blanc) and wouldn’t touch the stuff after September 1. We decided that a silly practice like that demanded a stupid response, so we left the vintage off and nobody ever noticed or cared, except that the retailers loved it because they didn’t get stuck with inventory.
I have definitely enjoyed Clark’s Grenache bottlings from this vineyard (and am looking forward to trying the I. Brand Cabernet from here). Enter the usual problems of having too much wine, nowhere to put it, etc. Let me know if anybody needs help filling out a case.
Labrat chiming in, sorry I’m late! Clark sent me a bottle of this rosé a couple days ago. For reference, I am a huge fan of Clark’s wines, and we also drink a lot of dry rosé- we have some of the best rosé in the world right here in the NY Fingerlakes.
I apologize for no pictures, but the listing photo is quite accurate- a very pale peach, quite light in color.
Nose is strawberries and herbs, very fresh. Lovely.
On the palate, this is the most savory rosé I’ve ever tasted. Tons of herbs, some salty/briny notes, my wife said a hint of tomato. High acidity, lots of the edgy, nervous minerality I always get in Clark’s wines. But not much fruit. Maybe a hint of melon and peach, but the fruit on the palate was really faint. Tried right out of the fridge, allowed to warm up a bit, let it get some air, and for me the fruit never appeared.
This means that, for me, this is definitely a food wine. Simple pairings, like watermelon really lit up the acidity and minerality of the wine, still with tons of savory and herbal notes. Went well with grilled chicken and roasted veggies.
Since much of my rosé drinking is done on the deck without much food, this effort from Clark doesn’t hit my sweet spot as much as his other wines. It’s also possible that I just don’t lean as much towards this more austere style of rosé. I do enjoy Provence rosé as well as some leaner CA and WA offerings, and this rosé is more herbal and savory than any I’ve tried.
Thanks for the labrat bottle, always a pleasure to drink your wines, Clark!
@wnance Yes, I agree. This is a versatile food wine but a bit austere for a cocktail. With time, it will round out and open up its fruit but right now it’s a bit tight. The upside is it’s incredible aging potential. I’m drinking my 2009 right now and it’s stunning. BTW, I still have a few cases of that Two Jakes Merlot rose, also wonderful now. Contact the winery if interested before I drink it all myself.
Now I wish I’d set some of the bottle aside to taste after a couple days to see if the fruit came out a bit. Alas, Shannon and I finished the bottle in short order, must have still been pretty enjoyable!
Pretty sure I’m going to get this, I love “serious” roses (not the silly ones). I live in the Northwest now and we have great roses up here from small producers. But I lived in Santa Cruz for 10 years and had friends near Corralitos.
Also used to have to go to Aix-en-Provence for work. Tough duty, it was… (sorry no rose emoji)
In the write-up I was intrigued by the methode champenoise variations. Would love to see these — one or both as a combo —come up in a Casemates Holiday season offering. (Hint! @WineDavid49)
@pmarin@winesmith the Grenache 3 pack, three ways is a pretty awesome deal on your site. I tried to buy a few months ago, but couldn’t check out without purchasing a full case and I have very little space. Glad to get 4 of these today
@CruelMelody@pmarin Thanks for the heads-up. We’ll troubleshoot the problem. We’re going to run that Grenache triplets deal again next week as part of our Going Into Business Sale on the site.
This looks interesting; I’m looking forward to trying it. Sounds nothing like other Grenache rosé I’ve had in the past.
@winesmith, you say this can improve with age, but aside from a couple exceptions I’ve not heard many winemakers suggest this. From my experience (and my own taste), I usually expect the drinking window for a Provençal-style rosé to be about 18 months from harvest, maybe 24 (maybe because I’ve always bought relatively cheap bottles in the past). That said I’ve had other rosé which has been good for up to five years, but since you’ve said a few times this can take some age, what sort of window do you expect to see?
@worbx I honestly don’t know for sure since we’ve only been making this particular wine since 2014. Five years for sure to open completely, and I’d guess to hold up for at least a decade. Mind you, the style of aged rose is something I am particularly enamoured of, and your opinion may differ. The wines get fatter and more complex but lose their acidic edge, so it’s a matter of functionality.
A fun experiment for a bottle or two in any case.
I know plenty of winemakers who like aged rose. They just don’t like to talk about it because in the relatively naive American market, fresh and fruity wines with nice bright pink color are favored. For an in-depth winemaker’s look at the whole world of Roses, I highly recommend Jeff Morgan’s book on the subject.
@winesmith Yeah, I think I’ll definitely be setting some bottles aside to see how it evolves. My one good experience with holding rosé is from Tavel. I’ve found the fruit there (which is much more predominant than in others) starts to fade in favor of more honey or nutty notes. I certainly enjoy it while fresh, but I’ve got a few from 2015 I intend to hold for a while longer, and some 2013 from a couple California producers, including Randall Grahm… who, come to think of it, has said his Vin Gris de Cigare will also evolve with age. Perhaps I should hold a couple of those also…
Thank you!
@winesmith@worbx Larry Shaffer’s rose (of Mourvedre) ages very well too. That’s Tercero, just in case you didn’t know. I had a bottle of the 2016 the other day and I’m continuing to hold some from as far back as 2013.
@klezman
Did we do some type of split on those from BD where they may have ended up with you?
Mine still show pending, as do many others that really aren’t.
I was lucky to recieve a bottle from Clark to sample but unfortunately it spent 40 hours on a UPS truck and was cooked. I’ve had many of Clark’s wines and always enjoyed them so i don’t want to review an off bottle.
Good news is this shipped super quick…bad news is it arrived here, however is not out for delivery and most likely will sit in a truck over the weekend and boil with a heat index over 100 MUY MAL. I’ll probably be sending this back unless Fedex pulls out a miracle today.
@sosptuba
Mine appears to be sitting in a sorting facility in Chicago (not out for delivery). I’m hoping it escapes and isn’t held hostage over the weekend with our 96 degree temperatures.
Mine (west Chicago suburb) arrived today. I took a gamble and didn’t upgrade shipping. After we had days near 100 last week, this week has been pleasant 80 degree days and 60 degree nights. I picked up the package shortly after it arrived at my preferred Hold At Location spot, and at home when I checked the internal temperature it was at 71 degrees, so it looks like all is well. I will by trying a bottle soon, and planning on this being one thing that will be served at my daughter’s wedding in 17 days.
@bfast It’s not something I’d describe as “tangy,” but I might guess you’re tasting the Acacia wood @winesmith used. Most rosé (at least most I’ve tasted) has no wood used with it, and it always stands out to me when it is used.
Or you could be noticing Grenache notes along with the acidity in the wine, or something else, perhaps, which just isn’t common in what you usually drink.
@bfast My first bottle tasted weird, too. Very watery and acidic. I’m wondering if it’s cooked…or maybe just needs time to settle down (the bottle shock theory). What is your verdict?
@DebRVA it was bad… one of my splitters was egregious in his opinion and a second bottle i opened confirmed it… maybe it’s a very delicate wine? The Chilean reds i got were delivered in good condition in hotter weather to LA
@bfast Drat, I have a whole case! And I was really looking forward to it. My case of viognier arrived just fine not too long ago. The recent extreme heat must have just been too much for shipping, even in the refrigerated trucks. Do we just eat the cost?
@bfast@DebRVA@winedavid49
Just received mine Thursday this week and mind you, no warning that it was even shipped. I received the ship email 20 minutes before the delivered email.
Opened a bottle today while sitting on a patio. It’s sour. Tastes sour. Smells sour. I had others taste as well. Sour is the only description. No other flavor profile. I’m sad as I had high hopes with @winesmith.
@bfast@DebRVA@Winedavid49@winesmith
Just opened the remaining bottles. All four were cooked. Dumped all. Now I’m drinking the Pedroncelli rose. Reinforces the others really had gone bad. If it’s cooked, you’ll know. Not tangy, but sour and smells…ugh. I’m very sad
@bfast@chefjess@Winedavid49@winesmith Sour is a good description of mine, as well. Definitely doesn’t taste like rose. I was planning to open a second bottle tonight and see if it’s the same. Sounds like there might have been a distribution issue, so my hopes aren’t high.
@bfast@chefjess@DebRVA@Winedavid49@winesmith I hate to pile on, but I’ve been meaning to post since I opened my first bottle a couple of nights ago. Let me start out with a positive, which is that the friends with whom I share at work do like it, and have come back for more after buying their first bottle or two. I don’t think mine was cooked or adversely affected by shipping. It only spent around 24 hours out of the reefer truck, and it was not blastingly hot that day, nor were the bottles noticeably warm on delivery. But here on the home front, we were underwhelmed. Not much flavor or aroma at first, but in fairness it was still cold from the (food) fridge. It was ok, not bad. I wasn’t getting a tangy impression, though I’m not 100% sure what that was. Slightly tart, maybe? But not disproportionately so. But as the evening went along, the impression that developed was a smell and flavor of slightly oxidized wine. We both remarked on it. Not old-old, just starting to give off that oldish smell.
I’ll let my friends pick up the rest of the case, and if one of them is kind enough to open one after work one Friday afternoon, I’ll report back with any further comments.
I agree that wood influence sticks out if you overdo it. That why we used a very tiny amount. Acacia doesn’t smell like oak at all - it imparts a honeysuckle aroma and a lushness to the mouth, both of which combat the wine’s natural austerity, being from the Santa Cruz Mountains.
That tang is minerality, always a feature of wines from this area. It’s a palate energy like acidity but further back in the finish. We don’t know what it is, but when present, the wines are tight in youth. When the Beverage Testing Institute tasted this wine, they recommended it be served with a good chill.
Received my case Friday and opened the first bottle tonight. I did not use expedited shipping to Virginia, and maybe I should have. It barely has any flavor at all. Might it need to rest a bit more, or is it cooked?
Lots of discussion about ‘cooked’ wine here but not a lot of good information on the web about what this actually means to the bottle in your hand (in contrast to known spoilage mechanisms like TCA, acetobacter, Brett, etc.) Robin Garr of WineLoversPage.com, author of the 30 Second Wine Advisor, had this to say on the subject way back in 2008. I’m no expert, but my read is that the summer heat has a bigger effect on your mind than on the wine in the glass: don’t worry too much, but don’t store your 1961 Cheval Blanc in the back seat of your Saab.
Your kidding right? I can find a ton of good info on heat damaged (cooked) wines.
Wine heat damage tastes unpleasantly sour and jammy…sort of like canned prunes. Heat can also compromise the seal of the bottle, leading to oxidization problems.
Seems high time I jump in here. First of all, I am devastated. This is the first time I seen this kind of negative feedback, and I’m not entirely sure what is going on. I love this wine, and there are aspects I’m familiar with that may have caught some of you by surprise.
It is possible that heat during shipment is at fault, but I really don’t think so. Has anyone seen pushed corks or leakage? In any case, this is a very robust wine, so I think it would withstand some temperature abuse.
Here’s what I think is going on. This is a Santa Cruz Mountain Grenache Dry Rosé. Let me dissect that statement. The SCM region is my favorite in California because the wines have so much minerality and longevity potential.
When I say that “m” work, I am not talking about a wet stone aroma, but rather a palate energy in the finish which is commonly mistaken for sourness or acidity because it is very similar, and can be annoying if you are expecting a smooth, luscious type of Rosé. We don’t know what causes this characteristic which I deal with at length in Chapter 8 of my book, Postmodern Winemaking. Whatever it is, you get it on special soils like limestone, volcanic soils (which is why my Cab Francs from Lake County have it), schist (think Oporto) and slate (Mosel).
Anyhow, there is a lot of this in the Rosé because of the soil type at Bates Ranch. The result is reduction. This wine is not oxidized, but the aromatics are zipped up for now. Winemakers are always tasting wines that aren’t ready, and I guess I have acquired a taste for them.
Second, I knew I could have made this wine more agreeable if I had sweetened it, but I wanted to make a wine in the tradition of Provence where until recently the wines are always made bone dry. I believe I corrected this somewhat by a small addition of aromatic acacia wood, which imparts a honeysuckle aroma and some lushness to the palate.
Third, there is the little known fact that Rosé in general is prone to reduction. Nobody knows why the chemistry works out that way, but this wine type can unpredictably close up after bottling and lose temporarily its aroma.
From your reaction, I believe that I made a mistake to release this wine so young and I would like to make amends. To begin with, please do not discard this wine if you’re unhappy with it, but hold it until it softens in a few months. The French and British drink their Rosé all year long and so do I.
In the meantime, I still have some stock of the 2017 vintage of this wine, which I am certain you will find is drinking very well now. For anyone who is disappointed with the 2018, I will ship you the 2017 in the volume you purchased at my own expense.
My Casemates fans are extremely important to me, and I hope you can forgive this miscalculation on my part.
@winesmith Clark, it’s these technically dense, helpful, and business-unfriendly actions that make me try to buy every one of your offerings. Thank you.
@winesmith Thanks for the offer, Clark, it’s very decent of you. For my part, I might hang onto a bottle to see what happens down the road. I’m curious to learn whether the taste and smell I read as oxidation turn into something else with some age. But for the rest, my friends have already bought multiples and are likely to take the balance of the case before summer is out, so I don’t feel I’m owed anything. Thanks though.
@winesmith
Hi Clark,
When I picked up my case from FedEX and after I opened it ’1’ bottle was leaking, the other ‘11’ seem fine. It is a short trip to SoCal and we have never had any issue with anything from you before, we always Love your wine’s. Not sure what happened, just letting you know. Thanks-Paul
@winesmith Clark, I received my case of 2017 rose yesterday and immediately popped a bottle in the fridge. I am extremely happy to report that it is delicious! I didn’t have time for a proper tasting, but I can tell you (and others on this forum) that it is a lovely rose. Very light color, a peachy shade of pale yellow. But the flavor and finish are magnificent. I have high hopes that the 2018 will be this good in another year or two. THANK YOU! Cheers.
Alright, as promised earlier, I did pop a bottle in the fridge to taste tonight. I forgot about it while having dinner, but opened it an hour or so later. Here are my random, and likely rambling thoughts.
Initially, I’m a bit confounded because I’m not finding much of what I’d expect of a rosé…but then again, this is Clark’s rosé. . On the nose, I’m definitely getting a hefty dose of herbal notes. Nothing fruity. Nothing floral. There’s something else I can’t put my finger on (more on that later).
Palate: definitely has that WineSmith minerality. I know others are tasting “sour” in the vinegar sense, but that’s not what I’m getting in mine. It’s definitely zingy/tangy. If it’s vinegary, I’d definitely suspect some weirdness going on. First glass, I didn’t get anything in the expected fruit range. There’s definitely an herbal sense which, for me, is lingering in the mid-palate and back.
I revisited Clark’s notes in the original post.
“roses with hints for strawberry and honeydew melon which I accented with a tiny amount of aromatic Acacia wood which imparts an enticing honeysuckle element. Though bone dry, the lushness in the mouth gives an impression of sweetness despite crisp acidity. One expects from your basic Grenache a simple strawberry aroma, but here we have in support of its bright fruitiness an intriguing collection of melon, droughty “garrigue” herbs, saddle leather and Asian spice. The mouth is medium-bodied with fine tannins and energetic minerality.”
Honestly, the only thing I’m picking up is the garrigue herb and the energetic minerality. Now I see that @winesmith thinks this may need some bit of time in bottle for the aromatics to “unzip”. I suppose that would make sense. Makes me wonder…when we’re these bottled?
Now for the “something I can’t put my finger on”. I’m on (small) glass number three and either some of the herbal notes have toned down a bit or I’ve just acclimated to them. I think my Casemateys may think I’m crazy but that “something” is now reading as…oh, God am I really going to say this out loud (in print)??..okay, here goes…bacon. I know…that’s CRAZY. Get the straight jacket.
So, thinking I’m certifiably insane…I hopped on the Google…and found this:
“One winemaker who tried the acacia barrels is Steven Canter of Quivira Vineyards and Winery in Dry Creek Valley, who has used it to age a few barrels of Sauvignon Blanc since 2007. He admits that he tried it out of curiosity. Canter says, “It supports the backbone of the wine with more spice and flavor, but none of the vanilla and false sweetness of oak. It’s more bacony than marshmallow.”
Ok…so maybe I’m not totally insane. I don’t think I’ve ever knowingly had any other wine with exposure to acacia wood. Acacia is in the same family as mesquite, so maybe the bacon/smoky note is real? Clark (@winesmith), am I insane? It’s not terribly strong g or obvious. It’s buried well under the herbal presence, but it’s there and now I can’t un-smell it.
By glass number three, I’m enjoying it a bit more. The initial strong herbal presence, which was a bit off-putting, has mellowed somewhat. It also may show better with food. I was too full from dinner to pull out cheeses, crackers, etc, but did munch on a handful of marcona almonds and some blueberry bundt cake, which seemed to help. Overall, while I don’t “love” this wine instantly as I do most of Clark’s wines, I don’t think it’s cooked, corked, or flawed in any way. I’m happy to sit on it and see if it comes into its own over the next year or so. Clark…how long do you suggest waiting before opening another?
Midnight ramblings over.
Cheers!
Sidenote: my stupid autocorrect keeps changing minerality to immorality. The wine is definitely not immoral (on its own).
I had the first bottle from my case a few days after receiving it. We finished it the next night (shared with 2 friends that were over for dinner). While it is definitely not what you expect when you think of rosé, nobody considered it to be “bad” (“unusual” certainly fits the bill). I decided that rather than use it for my daughter’s wedding next Saturday, I’ll stick with a more mainstream version of rosé.
@Mark_L Congrats on the wedding!
Yeah, much as I love unusual wines, they are not likely a great idea for a large group. Unless they’re all wine nerds like us!
@klezman I’ll be going with the current 2018 Exquisite Collection Cotes de Provence Rosé ($7.99 from Aldi – a newsletter just rated it a “bulk buy”). I bought a number of bottles and tried one with lunch today (my daughter was here, so it made a good opportunity to get her opinion). I’ll probably pick up a few extra bottles. The bonus is that I get to keep the rest of the case of Clark’s wine for myself!
Poured a glass, slightly chilled. Swirl and sniff reveals a light strawberry scent. That’s about all I get from the nose, initially, but a deeper sniffy-sniff makes me think of strawberry-rhubarb pie with a small dollop of whipped cream. I am not noticing anything particularly garrigue-like or even herbal, for that matter. The nose is definitely faint but it is also definitely there.
Sip, swish, swallow x2… now I sense the herbal influence. Doubt that I would have arrived at “garrigue” on my own, but I can find it when pointed in that direction. I also sense a little funk that goes along with the herbal component and segues into the savory component. From this launching point, I can even get to the bacon that Karen mentioned. That mineral tongue buzz which is Clark’s trademark adds to the notion, making me think of bacon sizzling in a pan.
Trying to backtrack now and clear my mind of any preconceived notions, I am getting more citrus on the palate than anything else. Orange zest at first with light strawberry in the background. After a few more sips, the thought of an Arnold Palmer (iced tea + lemonade) pops into my head, again with strawberry undertones. Still getting dried herbs and slight funk as well.
Although my notes are mostly different than Karen’s (with the exception of agreeing that there is a bacon-like component in there somewhere), I have reached much the same conclusion. The wine is not your typical Rose but I don’t find it to be sour, cooked, corked or flawed.
I have enough experience with Clark’s wines to know that, besides the trademark minerality, his wines are also built for age. I fully believe that this wine will continue to develop over time and while it may never end up profiling as a “normal” Rose, it will no doubt delight across the full spectrum of its unique evolutionary arc.
The greedy little devil on my shoulder wants me to request a case of the previous vintage but I am not going to take advantage of Clark’s generosity and fair-mindedness. Need to fulfill a share request for 4 of these with another Casemater who will have to make up his own mind but I am good with what I’ve got and look forward to chronicling its metamorphosis!
@winesmith, I opened my second bottle tonight and it still tastes “off” - certainly none of the floral, strawberry or bacon flavors I am reading about, mostly just sour. I read your post on the Discussions front page and I will take you up on your offer for the 2017 vintage. No rush, if you want to hold shipping until the Fall, I can wait. I’m glad I read your request not to dump this case; I will store it and see how it tastes in a year or two. I love all your other wines I’ve tried, so I will remain optimistic! And I sincerely appreciate your integrity.
I too have experienced the sour–yes its vinegar–in the few (five) bottles I’ve opened. I keep hoping the next one is better and then I dump it. I purchased a case and was looking forward to more rose to drink this summer. I’m disappointed.
Unfortunately, I am in the same boat as others. I purchased a case hoping that I’d be a hero with the wife and neighbors by providing some great rose and so far the two bottles we’ve opened have been unfinished. I believe sour is a good description so far.
Recognizing that this may be an out if they norm style, I’ve done my best to find redeeming qualities and have yet to get there.
While you win some and lose some, I just wish it was not on a full case this go around.
Clark, I still love your other wines! Just not this one. I’d be happy to ship one or two back for you to see if they got cooked or otherwise compromised.
After opening my fourth bottle of a case (this one actually had leakage), I decided I had to see what others thought of this Rosé and found I was definitely not alone in my disappointment. Two of the bottles were drinkable, but not exactly enjoyable - and definitely not to be shared - but two are really thin and sour to my tastebuds and not worth saving. Sour and “cooked.” Still have eight bottles to go, but I’m not sure I have the patience to let them sit and take up space for a year or more, and then find out I still don’t like them.
Sorry Clark. But glad to know I’m not alone in this assessment.
I decided to open my second bottle from this case, and it was very similar to the first. I find this wine to be a bit of a conundrum (no, not the Wagner family white blend!) – not something I immediately like, not something where I can say what is wrong, just something I’m not sure about. If @winesmith is ever in the Chicago area (has anything been set up for your tasting tour?), I’d be happy to share a bottle and see if it is what Clark intends it to be. For now, the jury is still out for me.
I finally opened my first bottle of this- almost ‘afraid’ to try it after all the previous comments, and given Clark’s comment on possibly being too young, I was holding off. We don’t drink a lot of rose, more often a variety of reds and we enjoy whites also. SWMBO and I both enjoyed this bottle, nothing wrong with it- not ‘off’, or sour. Unusual and interesting is more like it. We loved the nose, never had anything quite like that- I get the honeysuckle, and enjoyed it. A much bigger finish then I’d expect from a rose also, which we liked too! I am not great at flavor descriptions, but what there was, was subtle. Generally we drink ‘bigger’ wines, but there was definitely nothing off with this; and for finally a hotter day in Vermont, sipping this by the lake- it was quite good, and just right for the day. Different, but enjoyable.
Only got the 4 pack as again we don’t drink lots of rose- I think I’ll see how it develops in the future.
@drgonzo99 totally agree with you. It tasted funky and “off”, like briny olive juice when I opened my first bottle last July. Now it tastes like Provence, just like Clark said it would. Silly me for doubting.
@drgonzo99@KitMarlot I saved several bottles so this is good news! I will cool one and try it soon… fingers crossed, because i really enjoyed the 2017 vintage.
@Twich22 There was a discussion around this on May 8 in the What are you drinking tonight, May 2020 thread (starting with comments by @karenhynes. I mentioned a bottle I had recently opened (and ended up dumping most of). Not much hope for the remaining 9 bottles that I have.
@Twich22 My impression of the first bottle I opened back in July 2019 was that it was briny and unpleasant, a bit “weird” but not necessarily foul, contaminated, or sour. I opened my second bottle on 5/2/20, 10 months after my first taste and liked it a lot. I wrote in my notes “The savory briny note is still present but there is a lovely stonefruit nose (apricot?) along with a little bit of earth, herb, toast and stony minerality.”
@Twich22 OK, so I’m late to the game here, but I opened another bottle this weekend. To my nose, the woodsy notes are starting to, just starting to, integrate with the fruit of the wine. Still quite prominent though. Behind that I think there is a little briny sour note. I do not recall noticing this before. The fruit follows up behind this, then the tingle of acidity comes out.
On night two, after it opens up, I think the floral woody bit integrates better. Perhaps still a touch of brine, but the sour patch I noticed last night had mostly faded away.
Overall, better lightly chilled, maybe 60°F, than a deep chill (I think this about most rosé and most whites, though). I dunno, I mean, I liked this before, I don’t think it’s flawed, but I will also say I don’t think it’s improved since last year. But since I find I prefer it on night two, I think it’s still got life. I’ll hold onto what I’ve got left.
Hmm interesting you ask as I think my lot was spoiled and so I got rid of any and all remaining bottles. They all seemed to be the same sour taste. I don’t think it was weather related but I didn’t have enough time to go kicking and screaming and complaining so I just poured them all out and moved on.
@tkchicago I got 4 from a split case. Based on the discussion last year, I haven’t even opened one yet. I’ve got some other rosés to work through, so no rush. I’ll probably open the first some time next year when my wife wants a rosé and I don’t have any others in stock. Will be fun.
We drank a bottle of the 2018 a few days ago. It definitely improved, but was still not as good as the 2017 vintage. There’s still a hint of that “off” taste.
@DebRVA maybe its the acacia wood. There is more of it in the 2018 than the 2017, and if you have a sensitive palate it may be too much for you. Either that, or the wine went bad somewhere along the way.
Tasting Notes
The nose is full of roses with hints for strawberry and honeydew melon which I accented with a tiny amount of aromatic Acacia wood which imparts an enticing honeysuckle element. Though bone dry, the lushness in the mouth gives an impression of sweetness despite crisp acidity. One expects from your basic Grenache a simple strawberry aroma, but here we have in support of its bright fruitiness an intriguing collection of melon, droughty “garrigue” herbs, saddle leather and Asian spice. The mouth is medium-bodied with fine tannins and energetic minerality.
Serious dry Rosé is the cornerstone of French culture because it goes deliciously with everything. Bring it to dinner when you don’t know what’s cooking.
Vintage and Winemaker Notes
2018 Grenache Dry Rosé, Bates Ranch, Santa Cruz Mountains
There is, in my view, no other region in California that compares to the Santa Cruz Mountains for producing wines of distinctive terroir expression. Something about its mountain soils and mix of sandstone and greenstone, plus the lush surrounding herbs that encircle its tiny vineyards and impart their own distinctive “air-oir” gives each vineyard a unique stamp. The area is moderated by heavy Pacific influence but also lifted above the fog so that it enjoys plenty of cool direct sunlight, the perfect recipe for the grape to express itself.
The Bates Ranch is located in the sheltered Corralitos region just south of Ridge Vineyards, and is famous for their Cabernet Sauvignon, while their Grenache, less well known, is also quite wonderful.
We have a lot of fun with this fruit, producing a red and a Brut Zero Blanc de Noirs méthode champenoise as well as this provençal-style dry Rosé.
Specifications
Corralitos subregion, Santa Cruz Mountains
5th leaf of experimental planting
Included In The Box
Price Comparison
$244.80/case at WineSmith Cellars (for 2017 vintage, including shipping)
About The Winery
Winery: WineSmith Cellars
Maker: Clark Smith
Founded: 1993
Location: Sebastopol, CA
Clark Smith is an MIT drop-out who wandered out to California in 1972 and sold wine retail in the Bay Area for several years, where he acquired a love of Bordeaux, Burgundy and all things French and observed first hand the California winery explosion in the 1970s. After a three year stint at Veedercrest Vineyards, he secured enology training at UC Davis and spent the 1980s as founding winemaker for The R.H. Phillips Vineyard in Yolo County. In 1990, he founded WineSmith Consulting and patented a group of new winemaking techniques involving reverse osmosis, spinning off Vinovation, which went on to become the world’s largest wine production consulting firm over its 17-year history.
Frustrated with California’s winemaking trends, Clark started WineSmith Cellars in 1993 as a teaching winery to make Eurocentric wines to explore traditions beyond the mainstream, expanding for his winemaking clients the range of possibility for California fruit. Choosing to create long-term partnerships with committed growers rather than growing his own grapes, Clark has become an renowned expert on Cabernet Franc, having vinified twenty vintages from a wide variety of sites.
Teaching at Napa Valley College gave him access to the Student Vineyard for Faux Chablis and his Pauillac-style $100 “Crucible” Cabernet Sauvignon. From Renaissance Vineyards in North Yuba County he has made a sulfite-free Roman Syrah and also produces a Pinot Noir from Fiddlestix Vineyard in the Santa Rita Hills in a delicate, age-worthy Côtes de Beaune style. These wines are vinified in an ancient beat-up warehouse in Sebastopol, California.
WineSmith wines are noted for their longevity, classic balance, structural integrity, minerality and understated soulfulness. They often are aged extensively prior to release. When drinking a WineSmith wine, always ask yourself “What is this wine trying to teach me?” Clark is a vocal advocate of living soil and graceful longevity, and generally avoids excessive oak, alcohol, or extended hang-time. He is not shy about employing new tools when they are needed, such as alcohol adjustment to bring fruit into balance or micro-oxygenation to build refined structure, but always fully discloses techniques which are controversial and is outspoken in explaining his rationale.
His book, Postmodern Winemaking, is the culmination of four decades of reflection on wine’s true nature.
Video:
Available States
AZ, CA, CO, CT, DC, FL, GA, ID, IL, IN, IA, KS, LA, ME, MD, MA, MI, MN, MO, MT, NE, NV, NJ, NM, NY, NC, ND, OH, OR, PA, RI, SC, SD, TN, TX, VT, VA, WA, WV, WI, WY
Estimated Delivery
Thursday, Aug 8 - Monday, Aug 12
WineSmith Cellars Grenache Dry Rosé
4 bottles for $59.99 $15/bottle + $2/bottle shipping
Case of 12 for $149.99 $12.50/bottle + $1/bottle shipping
2018 WineSmith Cellars Grenache Dry Rosé
How much more are you saving by buying a full case?
(Note: Tax & Shipping not included in savings calculations)
2018 WineSmith Cellars Grenache Dry Rosé - $30 = 16.66%
Clearly there has been some date confusion here, with the absence of both rats and the always entertaining Clark @WineSmith
@WineDavid49
lookin’ at ya…
Hi Gang!
Rose is divided into “Silly” (so aptly termed “blush”) and “Serious”.
Serious Dry Rose is the cornerstone of French culture because it’s cheap and goes deliciously with everything. This one is from (IMHO) California’s best winegrowing region, the Santa Cruz Mountains, so it has extra layers of complexity.
Please don’t think of this as just a summer quaff. This is my go-to wine throughout the year, and will benefit from age.
Good to be back. I hope the lab rats will chime in with their views.
Clark
@winesmith Curious, any AbV adjustments needed with this one to keep it so low?
@rjquillin Good question. I certainly advise my winery clients never to make a rose with elevated alcohol - they’re terribly bitter. So I’m not above watering, and I personally like alcohols in the 12s. But this particular vineyard comes in quite low naturally for some reason, so I didn’t have to do anything and ended up with 12.9% and perfect balance just by chance.
@rjquillin @winesmith the 21.5º brix suggests that wasn’t needed. Iirc the rule of thumb is 1.8 brix per degree alcohol.
@klezman @rjquillin I use 0.61 x brix = %alc for this region. Hotter climates run 0.59 or so. Fermenter configuration also figures in.
@rjquillin @winesmith Gotcha…so closer to 1.65:1 rather than 1.8:1.
Auto-Buy!
/giphy sneaky-militant-rose
Hi Clark!
Can I get a music pairing for this wine?
@chipgreen By all means.
Joni Mitchell - Big Yellow Taxi
Gipsy Kings - Allegra
Stevie Wonder - I Just Called To Say I Love You
Jackson Browne - Fountain of Sorrow
Garth Brooks Wild HOrses
Ruben Romero - Romanza
John Denver - Sunshine On My Shoulder
Bob Dylan - Mr. Tambourine Man
Simon & Garfunkle - America
Mozart - Eine Kleine Nacht Muzik
Johann Strauss - Waltz of the Blue Danube
@chipgreen Split?
@winesmith
Thank you, Sir!
@mrn1
Sure, are you ok with 4 bottles?
@chipgreen Sure… will go well with one of my favorite songs of all time Big Yellow Taxi!
@mrn1
Classic!
Auto-buy, part deux!
/giphy unkind-adventurous-kitten
I was wondering why I’m still awake past midnight. Now I know the answer. Order placed.
“Cases Produced: 38”
Missing a 0, perhaps? Or a 1 in front?
@chipgreen Dunno why that went up. We bottled 197 cases.
@chipgreen @winesmith corrected.
Everything else look good?
/giphy ludicrous-breathtaking-battle
Always trouble to check before going to bed. Just bought a case. Always interested in what Clark is offering! Rose is always a hit this time of year.
@djvelospoke
Ditto!!
FYI: Clark (WineSmith) is an Auto-Buy with us!! Loved everything we have received from him over the years, which is about everything he has ever offered.
Thanks Clark, for the Case!! >>ungrateful-fearing-rogue<<
PS: Sorry, we don’t share Clark’s creations, seems like we just never have enough
Any guidance on serving temperatures for various uses?
@DickL For me, it depends on the environment and the intended function. Generally I will give a light chill, maybe 50 F. If it’s a hot day, I might go to 45 F. If I’m having a steak indoors, I might not chill it at all, i.e. 68 degrees.
Clark is an autobuy - plain and simple. The best California rose I have had previously was also a Clark Smith project (Two Jakes) and I expect this to be every bit as good, if not better.
If he really only made 197 cases of this, this sale will not last long. Glad I checked in this morning…
/giphy chaste-assertive-shoe
Bought a four pack and then realized that was an error, so upgraded to a case…
/giphy yucky-aspiring-acoustic
Expecting any rats?
@losthighwayz We are indeed. Not sure whither they have wandered.
In for a case. SWMBO won’t be happy to see me carry another box into the house (which will hopefully soon be moved down to Missouri), but as long as it arrives within the estimated delivery window I can say I’m going to use some for our daughter’s wedding (that should cut me some slack!
/giphy flawed-lone-panther
WineSmith? Grenache? Dry Rose? Even pre-rattage, don’t want to miss this one. We’re building up quite a cellar grouping of Clark’s wines now, but this is a new one for us. Advise getting in before the sellout!
/giphy aromatic-clairvoyant-judge
Loved the audio clip description. Sounds delicious!
@winedavid49 @clarksmith
Any possibility this could make it to SoCal in time for our company picnic on the 27th? Yeah, July.
@rjquillin yessir!
@Winedavid49 @winesmith
with that,
Your order number is: laddered-transient-calcium
but I will need a bit of time to chill it…
Should have some extras to supply any SoCal interest.
lmk
@rjquillin I’ll jump on any extras. Don’t need a case, but really some.
@radiolysis done, just don’t know how many.
Let you know after the picnic.
I’d hope four or so should be left after I save a few as well…
@rjquillin whatever works. Four, two, five. I’m not picky. Hopefully your officemates enjoy it!
@radiolysis @rjquillin I could go for 1-2 if any spares. No worries if not. Need to pick up what Ron is holding for me as it is!
@Winedavid49 Already in transit.
Well done WD!
Anyone in northern virginia (/DC) want a slice of these? See NOVA thread.
Just when I think I’m done buying…
The question is not whether resistance is futile, but whether there’s any point in it. Did I have the Two Jakes Rosé that someone mentioned above? It doesn’t ring a bell, and CT says no. Looking forward to trying Clark’s Rosé.
Giving standard summer shipping one more shot, since my two 7/3 deliveries arrived ok.
The two cases of Rosé I’ve shared with office-mates this summer (the Floodgate and the Aerena) are almost gone (both excellent, I’d re-buy immediately). The half case of Gruet Brut Rosé is down to a bottle or two. I’d better re-stock in the pink department.
/giphy ponderous-impervious-coyote
@InFrom Happy to report that the standard-shipping gambit worked out ok. Unlike my first summer shipments this year, this wine only spent 5 hrs overnight in St. Louis (as opposed to a full day last time), and shipped out early Thursday morning. Delivered to me in the Bronx just a little over 24 hrs later. The bottles are room temp. Can’t complain.
@InFrom
I guess WD must have dropped the hub in WNY. I was not getting the benefit of that anyway but was happy for those of you that were. I am all about the 2-day shipping with ice packs and world-destroying styro for an extra $15 but YMMV!
@chipgreen Actually that hub is in eastern NY, just outside of Albany, a couple-few hours north of NYC. It appears he’s still using that for the WNY shipments. Loading it off the reefer in Rensellaer, then truckin’ it back to Buffalo.
@InFrom
If it first shows up in tracking in St. Louis, that’s where the reefer truck dropped it off to FedEx, no?
@chipgreen Yes, for me, but a WNY dweller reported they’re still getting summer deliveries via Rensellaer, like last year. I’ll look for that post, I think it’s in the summer shipping thread.
@chipgreen @InFrom The last 2 orders which I just picked up at Fedex today were offloaded in St. Louis. It looks like the Rensaellaer drop off is done.
@catcoland @InFrom
Sorry to hear it.
@catcoland @chipgreen You had such high hopes at the start of the summer! Hope your packages work out, in my case so far, so good.
@chipgreen @InFrom As much as I appreciated that route I’ve wondered about the economics of sending my wine 300 miles east of Buffalo then trucking it back overnight. My first two orders after summer shipping started did go to Rensselaer but the next two went by reefer to St. Louis, sat overnight, took a 12 hour day trip to Grove City, OH and an overnight run to Buffalo. The case that was dropped off at 10 this morning at a Fedex store measured 71F inside the styro when I picked it up at 4pm. It was warmer than that in the store so I guess I can’t complain about the new route for me with standard summer shipping.
@catcoland @InFrom
Sure you can
Clark, how does this compare to the rose you bottled 7-8 years ago? Can’t recall varietal or year but used to order directly from you when you first came on woot
@losthighwayz Very much the same Provençal style as the Pennyfarthing and Cheapskate Skinflint Cab Franc roses - aromatic, dry, lush and minerally.
@winesmith yes! Pennyfarthing. If I recall correctly, it was a nonvintage. Where was the cab franc sourced from? For this offering, would you say the Grenache is “brighter” than the CF?
@winesmith
$8/btl; Those were the days.
I think I still have one…
@losthighwayz Yes, Grenache is brighter. It always delivers a strawberry note, where CF, while it may offer a little cherry, is more inclined to savory herbs and cinnamon, all very low-toned and integrated. This particular wine also has the Bates Ranch signature ripe melon and some honeysuckle aromas from the acacia wood. The palate energy from SCM soil adds to the impression of brightness but also makes the wine a bit tight in youth.
@losthighwayz As I recall, that Pennyfarthing Cab Franc Rose was from the Ironstone Vineyard in Acampo.
We always bottled NV in those days because Americans were treating the vintage like an expiration date (as they do Sauvignon Blanc) and wouldn’t touch the stuff after September 1. We decided that a silly practice like that demanded a stupid response, so we left the vintage off and nobody ever noticed or cared, except that the retailers loved it because they didn’t get stuck with inventory.
I have definitely enjoyed Clark’s Grenache bottlings from this vineyard (and am looking forward to trying the I. Brand Cabernet from here). Enter the usual problems of having too much wine, nowhere to put it, etc. Let me know if anybody needs help filling out a case.
@klezman Fortunately this one disappears fast.
Labrat chiming in, sorry I’m late! Clark sent me a bottle of this rosé a couple days ago. For reference, I am a huge fan of Clark’s wines, and we also drink a lot of dry rosé- we have some of the best rosé in the world right here in the NY Fingerlakes.
I apologize for no pictures, but the listing photo is quite accurate- a very pale peach, quite light in color.
Nose is strawberries and herbs, very fresh. Lovely.
On the palate, this is the most savory rosé I’ve ever tasted. Tons of herbs, some salty/briny notes, my wife said a hint of tomato. High acidity, lots of the edgy, nervous minerality I always get in Clark’s wines. But not much fruit. Maybe a hint of melon and peach, but the fruit on the palate was really faint. Tried right out of the fridge, allowed to warm up a bit, let it get some air, and for me the fruit never appeared.
This means that, for me, this is definitely a food wine. Simple pairings, like watermelon really lit up the acidity and minerality of the wine, still with tons of savory and herbal notes. Went well with grilled chicken and roasted veggies.
Since much of my rosé drinking is done on the deck without much food, this effort from Clark doesn’t hit my sweet spot as much as his other wines. It’s also possible that I just don’t lean as much towards this more austere style of rosé. I do enjoy Provence rosé as well as some leaner CA and WA offerings, and this rosé is more herbal and savory than any I’ve tried.
Thanks for the labrat bottle, always a pleasure to drink your wines, Clark!
@wnance Yes, I agree. This is a versatile food wine but a bit austere for a cocktail. With time, it will round out and open up its fruit but right now it’s a bit tight. The upside is it’s incredible aging potential. I’m drinking my 2009 right now and it’s stunning. BTW, I still have a few cases of that Two Jakes Merlot rose, also wonderful now. Contact the winery if interested before I drink it all myself.
@winesmith
Now I wish I’d set some of the bottle aside to taste after a couple days to see if the fruit came out a bit. Alas, Shannon and I finished the bottle in short order, must have still been pretty enjoyable!
Pretty sure I’m going to get this, I love “serious” roses (not the silly ones). I live in the Northwest now and we have great roses up here from small producers. But I lived in Santa Cruz for 10 years and had friends near Corralitos.
Also used to have to go to Aix-en-Provence for work. Tough duty, it was…
(sorry no rose emoji)
In the write-up I was intrigued by the methode champenoise variations. Would love to see these — one or both as a combo —come up in a Casemates Holiday season offering. (Hint! @WineDavid49)
@pmarin We’re talking about it. Thanks for your interest.
@pmarin @winesmith the Grenache 3 pack, three ways is a pretty awesome deal on your site. I tried to buy a few months ago, but couldn’t check out without purchasing a full case and I have very little space. Glad to get 4 of these today
EVERYTHING IS AWESOME!
@CruelMelody @pmarin Thanks for the heads-up. We’ll troubleshoot the problem. We’re going to run that Grenache triplets deal again next week as part of our Going Into Business Sale on the site.
This looks interesting; I’m looking forward to trying it. Sounds nothing like other Grenache rosé I’ve had in the past.
@winesmith, you say this can improve with age, but aside from a couple exceptions I’ve not heard many winemakers suggest this. From my experience (and my own taste), I usually expect the drinking window for a Provençal-style rosé to be about 18 months from harvest, maybe 24 (maybe because I’ve always bought relatively cheap bottles in the past). That said I’ve had other rosé which has been good for up to five years, but since you’ve said a few times this can take some age, what sort of window do you expect to see?
@worbx I honestly don’t know for sure since we’ve only been making this particular wine since 2014. Five years for sure to open completely, and I’d guess to hold up for at least a decade. Mind you, the style of aged rose is something I am particularly enamoured of, and your opinion may differ. The wines get fatter and more complex but lose their acidic edge, so it’s a matter of functionality.
A fun experiment for a bottle or two in any case.
I know plenty of winemakers who like aged rose. They just don’t like to talk about it because in the relatively naive American market, fresh and fruity wines with nice bright pink color are favored. For an in-depth winemaker’s look at the whole world of Roses, I highly recommend Jeff Morgan’s book on the subject.
@winesmith Yeah, I think I’ll definitely be setting some bottles aside to see how it evolves. My one good experience with holding rosé is from Tavel. I’ve found the fruit there (which is much more predominant than in others) starts to fade in favor of more honey or nutty notes. I certainly enjoy it while fresh, but I’ve got a few from 2015 I intend to hold for a while longer, and some 2013 from a couple California producers, including Randall Grahm… who, come to think of it, has said his Vin Gris de Cigare will also evolve with age. Perhaps I should hold a couple of those also…
Thank you!
@worbx Gideon Beinstock’s Clos Saron Tickle Pink Cinsault Rose is also a splendid ager.
@winesmith @worbx Larry Shaffer’s rose (of Mourvedre) ages very well too. That’s Tercero, just in case you didn’t know. I had a bottle of the 2016 the other day and I’m continuing to hold some from as far back as 2013.
@klezman
Did we do some type of split on those from BD where they may have ended up with you?
Mine still show pending, as do many others that really aren’t.
@rjquillin I did not get any Tercero on BD, nor any of the 2018 Rose. I actually skipped the vintage!
Can’t pass up Clark’s wine, in for 4.
/giphy nominated-orange-death
Winesmith! I’ve hesitated before and missed out. Don’t do Rose’s either, but Winesmith. In for a 4-pack.
So there IS a Jackalope?
/giphy vorpal-noisy-jackalope
/giphy shallow-scattered-yard
I was lucky to recieve a bottle from Clark to sample but unfortunately it spent 40 hours on a UPS truck and was cooked. I’ve had many of Clark’s wines and always enjoyed them so i don’t want to review an off bottle.
Count me in!
/giphy clownish-model-number
Not a big fan of dry rose, but this is WineSmith, so in for 4!
/giphy unanimous-bared-corn
Good news is this shipped super quick…bad news is it arrived here, however is not out for delivery and most likely will sit in a truck over the weekend and boil with a heat index over 100
MUY MAL. I’ll probably be sending this back unless Fedex pulls out a miracle today.
@sosptuba
Mine appears to be sitting in a sorting facility in Chicago (not out for delivery). I’m hoping it escapes and isn’t held hostage over the weekend with our 96 degree temperatures.
@karenhynes By some miracle mine got loaded onto a truck and headed out for delivery at 10:35…
@sosptuba
Apparently mine delivered an hour or so ago.
@sosptuba Arrived today.
Put an ice cube in it.
Don’t judge me, we all liked it.
@rjquillin @sosptuba
Oh i’m judging!
@rjquillin @ScottW58 arrived at 7:10 PM ice pack was on the warm side but the wine actually felt ok so I think it’ll be good with a few weeks of rest
@rjquillin @ScottW58 @sosptuba
I’m judging, too.
@karenhynes @ScottW58 @sosptuba
Hopefully the wine, not me.
@rjquillin @ScottW58 @sosptuba
Of course.
@karenhynes @rjquillin @sosptuba
Karen is much nicer than me!
Just got mine. Ice pack was warm but its 95 here in Chicago
Mine (west Chicago suburb) arrived today. I took a gamble and didn’t upgrade shipping. After we had days near 100 last week, this week has been pleasant 80 degree days and 60 degree nights. I picked up the package shortly after it arrived at my preferred Hold At Location spot, and at home when I checked the internal temperature it was at 71 degrees, so it looks like all is well. I will by trying a bottle soon, and planning on this being one thing that will be served at my daughter’s wedding in 17 days.
Mine does not taste like other rose… is it cooked or just different? Tangy almost
@bfast It’s not something I’d describe as “tangy,” but I might guess you’re tasting the Acacia wood @winesmith used. Most rosé (at least most I’ve tasted) has no wood used with it, and it always stands out to me when it is used.
Or you could be noticing Grenache notes along with the acidity in the wine, or something else, perhaps, which just isn’t common in what you usually drink.
@bfast My first bottle tasted weird, too. Very watery and acidic. I’m wondering if it’s cooked…or maybe just needs time to settle down (the bottle shock theory). What is your verdict?
@DebRVA it was bad… one of my splitters was egregious in his opinion and a second bottle i opened confirmed it… maybe it’s a very delicate wine? The Chilean reds i got were delivered in good condition in hotter weather to LA
@bfast Drat, I have a whole case! And I was really looking forward to it. My case of viognier arrived just fine not too long ago. The recent extreme heat must have just been too much for shipping, even in the refrigerated trucks. Do we just eat the cost?
@DebRVA if yours doesn’t have much flavor i doubt it’s cooked… these you open and your nose is hit with sour vinegar… email casemates for help…
@bfast @DebRVA @winedavid49
Just received mine Thursday this week and mind you, no warning that it was even shipped. I received the ship email 20 minutes before the delivered email.
Opened a bottle today while sitting on a patio. It’s sour. Tastes sour. Smells sour. I had others taste as well. Sour is the only description. No other flavor profile. I’m sad as I had high hopes with @winesmith.
@bfast @DebRVA @Winedavid49 @winesmith
Just opened the remaining bottles. All four were cooked. Dumped all. Now I’m drinking the Pedroncelli rose. Reinforces the others really had gone bad. If it’s cooked, you’ll know. Not tangy, but sour and smells…ugh. I’m very sad
@chefjess @DebRVA @Winedavid49 @winesmith yeah i dumped my whole case, very disappointing… maybe they were stored badly before shipping
@bfast @chefjess @Winedavid49 @winesmith Sour is a good description of mine, as well. Definitely doesn’t taste like rose. I was planning to open a second bottle tonight and see if it’s the same. Sounds like there might have been a distribution issue, so my hopes aren’t high.
@bfast @chefjess @DebRVA @Winedavid49 @winesmith
I’m popping a bottle in the refrigerator to try tonight…
@bfast @chefjess @DebRVA @Winedavid49 @winesmith I hate to pile on, but I’ve been meaning to post since I opened my first bottle a couple of nights ago. Let me start out with a positive, which is that the friends with whom I share at work do like it, and have come back for more after buying their first bottle or two. I don’t think mine was cooked or adversely affected by shipping. It only spent around 24 hours out of the reefer truck, and it was not blastingly hot that day, nor were the bottles noticeably warm on delivery. But here on the home front, we were underwhelmed. Not much flavor or aroma at first, but in fairness it was still cold from the (food) fridge. It was ok, not bad. I wasn’t getting a tangy impression, though I’m not 100% sure what that was. Slightly tart, maybe? But not disproportionately so. But as the evening went along, the impression that developed was a smell and flavor of slightly oxidized wine. We both remarked on it. Not old-old, just starting to give off that oldish smell.
I’ll let my friends pick up the rest of the case, and if one of them is kind enough to open one after work one Friday afternoon, I’ll report back with any further comments.
I agree that wood influence sticks out if you overdo it. That why we used a very tiny amount. Acacia doesn’t smell like oak at all - it imparts a honeysuckle aroma and a lushness to the mouth, both of which combat the wine’s natural austerity, being from the Santa Cruz Mountains.
That tang is minerality, always a feature of wines from this area. It’s a palate energy like acidity but further back in the finish. We don’t know what it is, but when present, the wines are tight in youth. When the Beverage Testing Institute tasted this wine, they recommended it be served with a good chill.
Received my case Friday and opened the first bottle tonight. I did not use expedited shipping to Virginia, and maybe I should have. It barely has any flavor at all. Might it need to rest a bit more, or is it cooked?
Lots of discussion about ‘cooked’ wine here but not a lot of good information on the web about what this actually means to the bottle in your hand (in contrast to known spoilage mechanisms like TCA, acetobacter, Brett, etc.) Robin Garr of WineLoversPage.com, author of the 30 Second Wine Advisor, had this to say on the subject way back in 2008. I’m no expert, but my read is that the summer heat has a bigger effect on your mind than on the wine in the glass: don’t worry too much, but don’t store your 1961 Cheval Blanc in the back seat of your Saab.
@KitMarlot
Your kidding right? I can find a ton of good info on heat damaged (cooked) wines.
Wine heat damage tastes unpleasantly sour and jammy…sort of like canned prunes. Heat can also compromise the seal of the bottle, leading to oxidization problems.
It tastes like vinegar or when wine gets too old too drink
Seems high time I jump in here. First of all, I am devastated. This is the first time I seen this kind of negative feedback, and I’m not entirely sure what is going on. I love this wine, and there are aspects I’m familiar with that may have caught some of you by surprise.
It is possible that heat during shipment is at fault, but I really don’t think so. Has anyone seen pushed corks or leakage? In any case, this is a very robust wine, so I think it would withstand some temperature abuse.
Here’s what I think is going on. This is a Santa Cruz Mountain Grenache Dry Rosé. Let me dissect that statement. The SCM region is my favorite in California because the wines have so much minerality and longevity potential.
When I say that “m” work, I am not talking about a wet stone aroma, but rather a palate energy in the finish which is commonly mistaken for sourness or acidity because it is very similar, and can be annoying if you are expecting a smooth, luscious type of Rosé. We don’t know what causes this characteristic which I deal with at length in Chapter 8 of my book, Postmodern Winemaking. Whatever it is, you get it on special soils like limestone, volcanic soils (which is why my Cab Francs from Lake County have it), schist (think Oporto) and slate (Mosel).
Anyhow, there is a lot of this in the Rosé because of the soil type at Bates Ranch. The result is reduction. This wine is not oxidized, but the aromatics are zipped up for now. Winemakers are always tasting wines that aren’t ready, and I guess I have acquired a taste for them.
Second, I knew I could have made this wine more agreeable if I had sweetened it, but I wanted to make a wine in the tradition of Provence where until recently the wines are always made bone dry. I believe I corrected this somewhat by a small addition of aromatic acacia wood, which imparts a honeysuckle aroma and some lushness to the palate.
Third, there is the little known fact that Rosé in general is prone to reduction. Nobody knows why the chemistry works out that way, but this wine type can unpredictably close up after bottling and lose temporarily its aroma.
From your reaction, I believe that I made a mistake to release this wine so young and I would like to make amends. To begin with, please do not discard this wine if you’re unhappy with it, but hold it until it softens in a few months. The French and British drink their Rosé all year long and so do I.
In the meantime, I still have some stock of the 2017 vintage of this wine, which I am certain you will find is drinking very well now. For anyone who is disappointed with the 2018, I will ship you the 2017 in the volume you purchased at my own expense.
My Casemates fans are extremely important to me, and I hope you can forgive this miscalculation on my part.
@winesmith Clark, it’s these technically dense, helpful, and business-unfriendly actions that make me try to buy every one of your offerings. Thank you.
@winesmith Thanks for the offer, Clark, it’s very decent of you. For my part, I might hang onto a bottle to see what happens down the road. I’m curious to learn whether the taste and smell I read as oxidation turn into something else with some age. But for the rest, my friends have already bought multiples and are likely to take the balance of the case before summer is out, so I don’t feel I’m owed anything. Thanks though.
@winesmith
Hi Clark,
When I picked up my case from FedEX and after I opened it ’1’ bottle was leaking, the other ‘11’ seem fine. It is a short trip to SoCal and we have never had any issue with anything from you before, we always Love your wine’s. Not sure what happened, just letting you know. Thanks-Paul
@winesmith Clark, I received my case of 2017 rose yesterday and immediately popped a bottle in the fridge. I am extremely happy to report that it is delicious! I didn’t have time for a proper tasting, but I can tell you (and others on this forum) that it is a lovely rose. Very light color, a peachy shade of pale yellow. But the flavor and finish are magnificent. I have high hopes that the 2018 will be this good in another year or two. THANK YOU! Cheers.
Alright, as promised earlier, I did pop a bottle in the fridge to taste tonight. I forgot about it while having dinner, but opened it an hour or so later. Here are my random, and likely rambling thoughts.
Initially, I’m a bit confounded because I’m not finding much of what I’d expect of a rosé…but then again, this is Clark’s rosé.
. On the nose, I’m definitely getting a hefty dose of herbal notes. Nothing fruity. Nothing floral. There’s something else I can’t put my finger on (more on that later).
Palate: definitely has that WineSmith minerality. I know others are tasting “sour” in the vinegar sense, but that’s not what I’m getting in mine. It’s definitely zingy/tangy. If it’s vinegary, I’d definitely suspect some weirdness going on. First glass, I didn’t get anything in the expected fruit range. There’s definitely an herbal sense which, for me, is lingering in the mid-palate and back.
I revisited Clark’s notes in the original post.
“roses with hints for strawberry and honeydew melon which I accented with a tiny amount of aromatic Acacia wood which imparts an enticing honeysuckle element. Though bone dry, the lushness in the mouth gives an impression of sweetness despite crisp acidity. One expects from your basic Grenache a simple strawberry aroma, but here we have in support of its bright fruitiness an intriguing collection of melon, droughty “garrigue” herbs, saddle leather and Asian spice. The mouth is medium-bodied with fine tannins and energetic minerality.”
Honestly, the only thing I’m picking up is the garrigue herb and the energetic minerality. Now I see that @winesmith thinks this may need some bit of time in bottle for the aromatics to “unzip”. I suppose that would make sense. Makes me wonder…when we’re these bottled?
Now for the “something I can’t put my finger on”. I’m on (small) glass number three and either some of the herbal notes have toned down a bit or I’ve just acclimated to them. I think my Casemateys may think I’m crazy but that “something” is now reading as…oh, God am I really going to say this out loud (in print)??..okay, here goes…bacon. I know…that’s CRAZY. Get the straight jacket.
So, thinking I’m certifiably insane…I hopped on the Google…and found this:
“One winemaker who tried the acacia barrels is Steven Canter of Quivira Vineyards and Winery in Dry Creek Valley, who has used it to age a few barrels of Sauvignon Blanc since 2007. He admits that he tried it out of curiosity. Canter says, “It supports the backbone of the wine with more spice and flavor, but none of the vanilla and false sweetness of oak. It’s more bacony than marshmallow.”
Ok…so maybe I’m not totally insane. I don’t think I’ve ever knowingly had any other wine with exposure to acacia wood. Acacia is in the same family as mesquite, so maybe the bacon/smoky note is real? Clark (@winesmith), am I insane? It’s not terribly strong g or obvious. It’s buried well under the herbal presence, but it’s there and now I can’t un-smell it.
By glass number three, I’m enjoying it a bit more. The initial strong herbal presence, which was a bit off-putting, has mellowed somewhat. It also may show better with food. I was too full from dinner to pull out cheeses, crackers, etc, but did munch on a handful of marcona almonds and some blueberry bundt cake, which seemed to help. Overall, while I don’t “love” this wine instantly as I do most of Clark’s wines, I don’t think it’s cooked, corked, or flawed in any way. I’m happy to sit on it and see if it comes into its own over the next year or so. Clark…how long do you suggest waiting before opening another?
Midnight ramblings over.
Cheers!
Sidenote: my stupid autocorrect keeps changing minerality to immorality. The wine is definitely not immoral (on its own).
I had the first bottle from my case a few days after receiving it. We finished it the next night (shared with 2 friends that were over for dinner). While it is definitely not what you expect when you think of rosé, nobody considered it to be “bad” (“unusual” certainly fits the bill). I decided that rather than use it for my daughter’s wedding next Saturday, I’ll stick with a more mainstream version of rosé.
@Mark_L Congrats on the wedding!
Yeah, much as I love unusual wines, they are not likely a great idea for a large group. Unless they’re all wine nerds like us!
@klezman I’ll be going with the current 2018 Exquisite Collection Cotes de Provence Rosé ($7.99 from Aldi – a newsletter just rated it a “bulk buy”). I bought a number of bottles and tried one with lunch today (my daughter was here, so it made a good opportunity to get her opinion). I’ll probably pick up a few extra bottles. The bonus is that I get to keep the rest of the case of Clark’s wine for myself!
@Mark_L Sweet deal! (Also a venue that lets you stock the wine -> excellent choice!)
@klezman @Mark_L
I regret that I gifted a bottle to the girl at FedEx, who remarked, “Oh, I’ve never had a dry Rose.”
Too curious not to try this now - putting a bottle in the fridge for a bit… BBL.
Poured a glass, slightly chilled. Swirl and sniff reveals a light strawberry scent. That’s about all I get from the nose, initially, but a deeper sniffy-sniff makes me think of strawberry-rhubarb pie with a small dollop of whipped cream. I am not noticing anything particularly garrigue-like or even herbal, for that matter. The nose is definitely faint but it is also definitely there.
Sip, swish, swallow x2… now I sense the herbal influence. Doubt that I would have arrived at “garrigue” on my own, but I can find it when pointed in that direction. I also sense a little funk that goes along with the herbal component and segues into the savory component. From this launching point, I can even get to the bacon that Karen mentioned. That mineral tongue buzz which is Clark’s trademark adds to the notion, making me think of bacon sizzling in a pan.
Trying to backtrack now and clear my mind of any preconceived notions, I am getting more citrus on the palate than anything else. Orange zest at first with light strawberry in the background. After a few more sips, the thought of an Arnold Palmer (iced tea + lemonade) pops into my head, again with strawberry undertones. Still getting dried herbs and slight funk as well.
Although my notes are mostly different than Karen’s (with the exception of agreeing that there is a bacon-like component in there somewhere), I have reached much the same conclusion. The wine is not your typical Rose but I don’t find it to be sour, cooked, corked or flawed.
I have enough experience with Clark’s wines to know that, besides the trademark minerality, his wines are also built for age. I fully believe that this wine will continue to develop over time and while it may never end up profiling as a “normal” Rose, it will no doubt delight across the full spectrum of its unique evolutionary arc.
The greedy little devil on my shoulder wants me to request a case of the previous vintage but I am not going to take advantage of Clark’s generosity and fair-mindedness. Need to fulfill a share request for 4 of these with another Casemater who will have to make up his own mind but I am good with what I’ve got and look forward to chronicling its metamorphosis!
@winesmith, I opened my second bottle tonight and it still tastes “off” - certainly none of the floral, strawberry or bacon flavors I am reading about, mostly just sour. I read your post on the Discussions front page and I will take you up on your offer for the 2017 vintage. No rush, if you want to hold shipping until the Fall, I can wait. I’m glad I read your request not to dump this case; I will store it and see how it tastes in a year or two. I love all your other wines I’ve tried, so I will remain optimistic! And I sincerely appreciate your integrity.
I too have experienced the sour–yes its vinegar–in the few (five) bottles I’ve opened. I keep hoping the next one is better and then I dump it. I purchased a case and was looking forward to more rose to drink this summer. I’m disappointed.
Unfortunately, I am in the same boat as others. I purchased a case hoping that I’d be a hero with the wife and neighbors by providing some great rose and so far the two bottles we’ve opened have been unfinished. I believe sour is a good description so far.
Recognizing that this may be an out if they norm style, I’ve done my best to find redeeming qualities and have yet to get there.
While you win some and lose some, I just wish it was not on a full case this go around.
Clark, I still love your other wines! Just not this one. I’d be happy to ship one or two back for you to see if they got cooked or otherwise compromised.
After opening my fourth bottle of a case (this one actually had leakage), I decided I had to see what others thought of this Rosé and found I was definitely not alone in my disappointment. Two of the bottles were drinkable, but not exactly enjoyable - and definitely not to be shared - but two are really thin and sour to my tastebuds and not worth saving. Sour and “cooked.” Still have eight bottles to go, but I’m not sure I have the patience to let them sit and take up space for a year or more, and then find out I still don’t like them.
Sorry Clark. But glad to know I’m not alone in this assessment.
I decided to open my second bottle from this case, and it was very similar to the first. I find this wine to be a bit of a conundrum (no, not the Wagner family white blend!) – not something I immediately like, not something where I can say what is wrong, just something I’m not sure about. If @winesmith is ever in the Chicago area (has anything been set up for your tasting tour?), I’d be happy to share a bottle and see if it is what Clark intends it to be. For now, the jury is still out for me.
I finally opened my first bottle of this- almost ‘afraid’ to try it after all the previous comments, and given Clark’s comment on possibly being too young, I was holding off. We don’t drink a lot of rose, more often a variety of reds and we enjoy whites also. SWMBO and I both enjoyed this bottle, nothing wrong with it- not ‘off’, or sour. Unusual and interesting is more like it. We loved the nose, never had anything quite like that- I get the honeysuckle, and enjoyed it. A much bigger finish then I’d expect from a rose also, which we liked too! I am not great at flavor descriptions, but what there was, was subtle. Generally we drink ‘bigger’ wines, but there was definitely nothing off with this; and for finally a hotter day in Vermont, sipping this by the lake- it was quite good, and just right for the day. Different, but enjoyable.
Only got the 4 pack as again we don’t drink lots of rose- I think I’ll see how it develops in the future.
@drgonzo99 totally agree with you. It tasted funky and “off”, like briny olive juice when I opened my first bottle last July. Now it tastes like Provence, just like Clark said it would. Silly me for doubting.
@drgonzo99 @KitMarlot I saved several bottles so this is good news! I will cool one and try it soon… fingers crossed, because i really enjoyed the 2017 vintage.
@Mark_L @agailb @djvelospoke @Maurakid @DebRVA @chipgreen @bfast @InFrom @chefjess @worbx Out of curiosity I am wondering if any of you still have any of this Rose, and whether its taste has improved at all.
@Twich22 There was a discussion around this on May 8 in the What are you drinking tonight, May 2020 thread (starting with comments by @karenhynes. I mentioned a bottle I had recently opened (and ended up dumping most of). Not much hope for the remaining 9 bottles that I have.
@Twich22 My impression of the first bottle I opened back in July 2019 was that it was briny and unpleasant, a bit “weird” but not necessarily foul, contaminated, or sour. I opened my second bottle on 5/2/20, 10 months after my first taste and liked it a lot. I wrote in my notes “The savory briny note is still present but there is a lovely stonefruit nose (apricot?) along with a little bit of earth, herb, toast and stony minerality.”
@Twich22
I had a bottle recently and it had not improved.
@Twich22 OK, so I’m late to the game here, but I opened another bottle this weekend. To my nose, the woodsy notes are starting to, just starting to, integrate with the fruit of the wine. Still quite prominent though. Behind that I think there is a little briny sour note. I do not recall noticing this before. The fruit follows up behind this, then the tingle of acidity comes out.
On night two, after it opens up, I think the floral woody bit integrates better. Perhaps still a touch of brine, but the sour patch I noticed last night had mostly faded away.
Overall, better lightly chilled, maybe 60°F, than a deep chill (I think this about most rosé and most whites, though). I dunno, I mean, I liked this before, I don’t think it’s flawed, but I will also say I don’t think it’s improved since last year. But since I find I prefer it on night two, I think it’s still got life. I’ll hold onto what I’ve got left.
@Twich22 @worbx
I’m still holding some hope that, in time, it will be more to my liking.
@karenhynes @Twich22 Yeah, looking up above again I see @Winesmith did suppose
So we’ll see! I may just wait another whole year before opening the next bottle.
Hmm interesting you ask as I think my lot was spoiled and so I got rid of any and all remaining bottles. They all seemed to be the same sour taste. I don’t think it was weather related but I didn’t have enough time to go kicking and screaming and complaining so I just poured them all out and moved on.
Had bought 4, Glad I waited with 1 bottle- age treated it well. Enjoying this very much August 2020
@tkchicago I got 4 from a split case. Based on the discussion last year, I haven’t even opened one yet. I’ve got some other rosés to work through, so no rush. I’ll probably open the first some time next year when my wife wants a rosé and I don’t have any others in stock. Will be fun.
We drank a bottle of the 2018 a few days ago. It definitely improved, but was still not as good as the 2017 vintage. There’s still a hint of that “off” taste.
I popped another 2018 bottle and had to dump it. If anyone is saving this, I’d advise giving it a try soon.
@DebRVA maybe its the acacia wood. There is more of it in the 2018 than the 2017, and if you have a sensitive palate it may be too much for you. Either that, or the wine went bad somewhere along the way.