I am shocked, and find this poll revolting. Time to file some charges against someone for this, or at least ground them. Watt you say to that? (ok, who’s next on the electrical pun wagon?)
@benguin986@fibrs86 I can’t resist a good pun. I’m a bit amped to see if we can get a deep cycle of them going. Personally, I’m out of practice, but I’ll try and get a few more diode in. (I was trying to figure out another, but I don’t think I conduit.)
I have a late reservation for a Model 3, hoping either for December to potentially get a full tax credit, or March 2019 to skip winter. I won’t have the willpower to wait until March if it comes up in between
Re: combustion - I was originally aiming to get a new Corvette in Spring 2019, but the Model 3 got my attention, and I like that I could drive it year round vs garaging the Corvette for months
Just a thought;
what fuel generates the electricity that charges your batteries, and what is the total energy footprint required to manufacture and dispose of those batteries?
I don’t know the answers, but would be interested in any objective studies.
@rjquillin, the fuel varies from area to area. And while that is a valid concern, the overall footprint for electric cars is still substantially smaller than convention gas/diesel vehicles.
@haydesigner Where are you getting your data from? Much of the electricity in this country makes these things as dirty as ICE vehicles, and even if it was 100% renewable, you would never make up for the earth rapeage making them caused.
Electric cars are neat, and move pollution elsewhere, but they’re not green yet.
@Seeds Funny to see it titled “The ‘electric cars aren’t green’ myth debunked” but that article confirms that EVs are as dirty as ICE vehicles in the US, and doesn’t actually challenge the assertion that the manufacturing of them isn’t green, it justs tries to criticize people for not “offer[ing] any better solutions”.
@haydesigner@mother@Seeds While one cannot rely on the accuracy of comments that follow the linked article, I find some quite humorous and others rather enlightening; some also appear well reasoned.
@Seeds How is the average fuel economy relevant in any way to the discussion? You don’t buy an ‘average’ vehicle if you want to be green.
Fuel efficient ICE vehicles tend to get high 30s combined and low to mid 40s on the highway.
If we ignore the fact that anywhere it gets hot or cold the EVs will get much worse MPGe than rated whereas compared to the impact on ICE vehicles, that means a difference of perhaps 300 gallons of fuel over 100k miles.
The manufacturing deficit has to be many times that, no?
@Seeds Ah, by looking at the blog post talking about that I see that they claim that now. Are they specifically talking about non-Tesla caliber vehicles then?
Using the lowest estimate I could find on CO2 per Wh or lithium battery of 150kg, their estimation for the manufacturing of the car doesn’t even cover the battery packs in a Tesla.
@mother No idea, and given that I don’t have 100k to drop on a car, I haven’t looked into the economics of a Tesla. I do think it’s a little silly to only compare the most fuel efficient petroleum fueled vehicles to only a high performance luxury electric though. Skewed samples right there.
Sure, I’ll buy one when electric is significantly cheaper than gas (without government subsidies/tax credits), and they’ve been around long enough that I know the battery isn’t going to lose its capacity after 10 years or catch fire when it gets wet.
Been driving them since my original RAV4 EV in 2002. Love them. I have a BMW i3 now, but planning on going back to the Leaf I had previously. An absolute joy to drive.
@tklivory I have 2 kids and they always argue over who sits in the back seat. The suicide doors are not convenient to enter and exit. Also, the Leaf feels better built. For the sticker price of the i3, it feels very flimsy. My i3 didn’t come with a backup camera or garage remote, while the Leaf did.
I have a Tesla X. I love it. It is a lease, so I will be ready to upgrade in 3 years when the tech improves. The acceleration alone is a selling point. Makes me feel safer, like I can get out of tricky situation better. For me it was less about the money and more about the carbon footprint and fun factor.
Would love to own a Tesla!
I was on the list for an x… but the price point, and front end look stopped that.
I’m on the list for the 3. Not sure I’ll still buy if the credits run out before my number is up.
@looseneck ditto. I’m hoping they stock pile in order to get more people the full credit
I am shocked, and find this poll revolting. Time to file some charges against someone for this, or at least ground them. Watt you say to that? (ok, who’s next on the electrical pun wagon?)
@benguin986 Ohm all in. As an EE these puns don’t phase me. In fact, I could go on Faraday or two.
@benguin986 @fibrs86 I can’t resist a good pun. I’m a bit amped to see if we can get a deep cycle of them going. Personally, I’m out of practice, but I’ll try and get a few more diode in. (I was trying to figure out another, but I don’t think I conduit.)
@benguin986 You sure have a short fuse.
I have a late reservation for a Model 3, hoping either for December to potentially get a full tax credit, or March 2019 to skip winter. I won’t have the willpower to wait until March if it comes up in between
Re: combustion - I was originally aiming to get a new Corvette in Spring 2019, but the Model 3 got my attention, and I like that I could drive it year round vs garaging the Corvette for months
Just a thought;
what fuel generates the electricity that charges your batteries, and what is the total energy footprint required to manufacture and dispose of those batteries?
I don’t know the answers, but would be interested in any objective studies.
@rjquillin, the fuel varies from area to area. And while that is a valid concern, the overall footprint for electric cars is still substantially smaller than convention gas/diesel vehicles.
Plus… emmisions are not a trivial concern.
@haydesigner Where are you getting your data from? Much of the electricity in this country makes these things as dirty as ICE vehicles, and even if it was 100% renewable, you would never make up for the earth rapeage making them caused.
Electric cars are neat, and move pollution elsewhere, but they’re not green yet.
@rjquillin @haydesigner @mother http://shrinkthatfootprint.com/electric-cars-green
@Seeds Funny to see it titled “The ‘electric cars aren’t green’ myth debunked” but that article confirms that EVs are as dirty as ICE vehicles in the US, and doesn’t actually challenge the assertion that the manufacturing of them isn’t green, it justs tries to criticize people for not “offer[ing] any better solutions”.
@haydesigner @mother @Seeds While one cannot rely on the accuracy of comments that follow the linked article, I find some quite humorous and others rather enlightening; some also appear well reasoned.
@mother Average mpg for a petroleum fueled vehicle in the us is about 23 mpg. 40 including manufacturing is more than 23.
@Seeds How is the average fuel economy relevant in any way to the discussion? You don’t buy an ‘average’ vehicle if you want to be green.
Fuel efficient ICE vehicles tend to get high 30s combined and low to mid 40s on the highway.
If we ignore the fact that anywhere it gets hot or cold the EVs will get much worse MPGe than rated whereas compared to the impact on ICE vehicles, that means a difference of perhaps 300 gallons of fuel over 100k miles.
The manufacturing deficit has to be many times that, no?
Infographic from your link:
@mother The manufacturing deficit is included in the 40 mpg estimate.
@Seeds Ah, by looking at the blog post talking about that I see that they claim that now. Are they specifically talking about non-Tesla caliber vehicles then?
Using the lowest estimate I could find on CO2 per Wh or lithium battery of 150kg, their estimation for the manufacturing of the car doesn’t even cover the battery packs in a Tesla.
@mother No idea, and given that I don’t have 100k to drop on a car, I haven’t looked into the economics of a Tesla. I do think it’s a little silly to only compare the most fuel efficient petroleum fueled vehicles to only a high performance luxury electric though. Skewed samples right there.
@Seeds Fair enough.
I bought a Prius in 2009 and another in 2016. I’m hoping that when I replace this one in 2023, going electric will be a no-brainer.
Sure, I’ll buy one when electric is significantly cheaper than gas (without government subsidies/tax credits), and they’ve been around long enough that I know the battery isn’t going to lose its capacity after 10 years or catch fire when it gets wet.
Been driving them since my original RAV4 EV in 2002. Love them. I have a BMW i3 now, but planning on going back to the Leaf I had previously. An absolute joy to drive.
@nostrom0 So you’d recommend a Leaf over the i3? Any particular reason why? (i’m pondering my next car in a year or so)
@tklivory I have 2 kids and they always argue over who sits in the back seat. The suicide doors are not convenient to enter and exit. Also, the Leaf feels better built. For the sticker price of the i3, it feels very flimsy. My i3 didn’t come with a backup camera or garage remote, while the Leaf did.
@nostrom0 All good to know. Thanks!
I have a Tesla X. I love it. It is a lease, so I will be ready to upgrade in 3 years when the tech improves. The acceleration alone is a selling point. Makes me feel safer, like I can get out of tricky situation better. For me it was less about the money and more about the carbon footprint and fun factor.
I just lurrrrrve my Volt. Sure, it burns gasoline when it has to, but I haven’t done that for couple of months, even while commuting daily.