2012 Pacific Rim Noble Wine Riesling, Selenium Vineyard, 375ml
Tasting Notes
Bouquet
Honey, caramel and apricot.
Taste
Stone fruit with medium Riesling acidity and rich sugar levels.
Food Pairing
Ideal with blue cheeses and fruit salads.
Production Technique
Selenium Vineyardās south facing slope sits 1,200 feet above sea level on a gentle south east facing slope. The rot developed over several months and the grapes were picked extremely late in February 2012.
Vintage and Winemaker Notes
90 Points, Wine Enthusiast
āThis botrytized wine came from 2011 vintage grapes that were not harvested until February 2012. A light-golden color, itās bright with aromas of dried apples, pears and flowers. Itās sweet (170g/L residual sugar) but not weighty, retaining a sense of lightness and elegance.ā āWine Enthusiast
#8 Top American Riesling - 92 Points!
āGolden in color and rich, with spicy notes complementing the open-textured apricot, pear and floral flavors. Finishes with remarkable transparency, lingering beautifully. Drink now through 2022.ā
2011 brought the coveted noble rot to Washingtonās Yakima Valley allowing us to craft a rare 100% botrytized Riesling. This succulent dessert wine expresses aromas of caramel and apricot while the flavors are rich with stone fruit and lush minerality.
At 1,200 feet of elevation, Selenium Vineyard sits on the Golden Bench of the Yakima Valley. This south facing slope has thin soils with wind-blown loess on fractured basalt encouraging the vines to dig deep for nutrients. Planted in 2001, Selenium Vineyard features German Riesling clones 190, 110, 98 & 239. All four clones were lovingly hand-harvested to ensure the best cluster selection for our Noble and Ice Wine Rieslings.
Specifications
Vintage: 2012
Varietal: 100% Riesling
Selenium Vineyard, Yakima Valley, Washington
Production Techniques: The wine was fermented cold with native yeasts and the fermentation was arrested at 170 g/L residual sugar. The wine was aged for 10 months in stainless steel tank and given an additional 2 years of bottle aging.
Alcohol: 9%
Total Acidity: 0.75%
Residual Sugar: 17.0 g/l
This wine has the ability to age for 15 to 20 years
Included in the Box
4-bottles:
4x 2012 Pacific Rim Noble Wine Riesling, Selenium Vineyard, 375ml
Case:
12x 2012 Pacific Rim Noble Wine Riesling, Selenium Vineyard, 375ml
First released by Randall Grahm of Bonny Doon Vineyard in 1992, Pacific Rim Dry Riesling quickly gained a loyal following among Riesling lovers. Known for its fresh and bright characteristics, the wine was a welcome alternative to over-oaked, one-dimensional white wines. As the American palate evolved in recent years toward wines with greater complexity and crisper acidity, the popularity of Pacific Rim Dry Riesling grew.
Demand and enthusiasm for Pacific Rim Dry Riesling continued to gain momentum ā and the excitement around the wine inspired a radical ideaā¦ the creation of a winery exclusively dedicated to Riesling. In August of 2006, a small band of Bonny Doon expats moved to the Northwest from California with a common desire to craft the best Riesling in Americaā¦ thus, Pacific Rim became its own winery.
At Pacific Rim, we are passionate about Riesling (in fact, nearly 90% of Pacific Rimās production is comprised of Riesling wines); we are passionate about crafting world-class Riesling; and we are passionate about extolling the wondrous virtues of Riesling.
Available States
AZ, CA, CO, DC, FL, GA, ID, IL, KS, MD, MA, MI, MN, MT, NH, NM, NY, NC, OR, PA, TN, TX, VA, WA
I love playing with the Lab Rat image. Tried to represent the amber color, but it didnāt go well with the background and well paint is not photoshop, but what you see is what you get.
Now, to the wine.
Can I just say one word first - YUM!!!
When the bottle came and it was only 375 ml, I was very intrigued. So I will be honest I googled a bit first, and my eyes got very big. An aperitif or dessert wine - right up my alley. Good thing this is my birthday weekend and Iām going off my basically carb fast for a few days or I would have sipped and cried instead of planned to enjoy.
Came home from work and cracked the bottle. Generally wines like this arenāt for with food. Maybe with some cheese or berries or for some chocolate, but I see them as dessert in a bottle.
First thing you smell is the fruit, apple/pear seem much more dominant than the apricot mentioned above. I donāt get the caramel I get in some enriched dessert whites, but I got a definite hint of spice.
I donāt have aperitif glasses, so I went for my most elegant shot glasses. Amount is similar. I sat and drank it and smiled. and after a bit, went and got a second glass.
I heartily recommend this to anyone who obtains pleasure with this type of wine. Youāll love it. I have faith.
And I have a question for the Vintner if he comes on. On your website, you have a wine with an alcohol level listed as only being 1% - is this correct or a typo.
I will probably order some ice wine and ice wine like wines from you as well and one of my buddies is ogling the Framboise
Thank you for the pure pleasure of sampling this delight.
I thought this looked familiar.
Dipping into the past; WW on 12/4/2016, delivered 12/14/2016 for $23.40/btl (3-pack).
Complete even with a review.
Thanks to @cortot.
Wonder if I can find a bottleā¦
@Cerridwyn@rjquillin I did go for this full case because well, I had to (see Riesling, Randall, Rot below). But I would say I love it when there is a mix of 2 or more things in the full case ā just makes it a bit more intesteresting to try different things. Like a mix of noble and ice versions. Or I know some other recent offers have been verticals. And of course the Zeppelin mixed (and somewhat random case) ā that was over-the-top!
Iām not quite sure how to go about this wine. I pretty much stick to reds, so a sweet white such as this is well outside of my comfort zone. With that being said I will endeavor to keep and open mind.
First of all as I mentioned earlier, this is what I would call a sweet white. Itās not your typical Riesling. It is closer to a Moscato than a traditional Riesling. It is a creative piece. Imagine a white Port minus the high alcohol. At 9% ABV it is sure to keep you cool and refreshed without getting you there in a hurry. I chilled mine in the fridge for about 30 minutes before opening it.
It has a rich golden, honey color. This comes across in a nose dominated by apricot, peach and prominent minerality which all conspire to create a distinct note of honey. The rest of the experience is very smooth and creamy with the minerality even more pronounced in the body. If you like minerality then you will enjoy this wine, otherwise it might not be for you. It has had time to rest and relax. It tastes mature. The low alcohol makes it perfect for dessert or even just a casual sipper for the occasional sweet tooth wino.
If I was into Rieslings and whites in general I could see myself stocking up on this one as a cool, interesting sweet red. It also comes in a half bottle so you donāt have to commit to an entire bottle once opened. However it should keep well in the fridge as it does not have any fiz(gas) to begin with. I would imagine, the sugar content alone should be enough to preserve it for days or weeks once opened.
Surely an interesting creative take for the right palate.
Is this vintage 2011 or 2012? All the notes discuss the 2011 growing season but the offer says 2012. And donāt tell me that harvesting the 2011 crop after new yearās makes it a different vintageā¦
@klezman@winesnob In fact if Iām not mistaken vintage year is indeed designated by the year the grapes were picked. So if these grapes were planted 2011 and left hanging until 2012, the wine became a 2012 on Jan 1
@klezman Looking for the actual regulation, but here is a blurb from the winemaker at Hazlitt 1852 Vineyards in NY:
āWhat vintage actually refers to is wine produced from a particular harvest. When a wine is labeled with a āvintage dateā it is in reference to the year in which the grapes were harvested, but not in which they were necessarily grown.ā
@kaolis@winesnob
That is bizarre. Places that regularly grow icewine (Germany and Canada, and I thought, Washington State) had more sane rules. Grapes grown in 2011 are 2011 vintage. Labelling a 2011 wine with 2012 (even if thatās what the rules state) means consumers are confused. 2011 and 2012 may be dramatically different growing years.
@kaolis@klezman I honestly donāt care for icewine but it makes more sense to me that it would be labeled 2012 because growing the berries is only a fraction of the equation. The year the berries were harvested becomes the vintage as the vintage represents the age of the vines, how far they have come, the overall life of the Vineyard(s) and consequently the winemaking process (fermentation etc) which also typically occurs in that same year. Arguments can be made for the contrary for all manner of outlier cases such as this one so it is generally accepted that the clock stops when the grapes are harvested and the vintage is recorded. The onus is on the enthusiast to be cognizant of the nuanced timeline for certain styles of wine. IMHO
@kaolis@winesnob
Sure, ymmv. But your argument that a grape grown from April 2019 through December 31, 2019 should retain a 2019 vintage label while being harvested one day later should garner it a 2020 label makes no sense by the factors you cite. Also goes to why the wine description for this ā2012ā wine discuss the 2011 growing season - because thatās whatās important. Or, put another way, for a northern hemisphere wine you cannot have 2020 vintage wine until after the grapevines have budded out, flowered, set fruit, and ripened, all in 2020.
Canadian regulations use āgrowing seasonā and ācrop growing seasonā as the way to determine vintage.
German eiswein follows the same rules, and is often picked well into February.
I suspect the fine folks at TTB never bothered to consider that the growing season and harvest year could be different, yielding this inane regulation. Should be easy to fix, however, if ice wine makers simply worked on lobbying the TTB.
How much more are you saving by buying a full case?
(Note: Tax & Shipping not included in savings calculations)
2012 - Pacific Rim Noble Wine Riesling - $60 = 24.99%
@InFrom I wouldnāt know anything about what it means, except that I learned a little about it in VIT 3 at UC Davis, So I still say the term Botrytis Cineria but donāt think Iāve ever had anything specifically attributed to it.
Actually now Iām curious, is it true that a botrytized wine is always an ice wine, but an ice wine is not necessarily (or typically) a botrytized wine? Or at least in this case it is since harvested in Februrary (and I know it gets cold in Yakima in February!)
@InFrom Thinking more about itā¦ I suppose my premise is wrong. You could have botrytized fruit and still harvest before a freeze (or in warmer climates where freezes are rare). But in the case of this Yakima Riesling, I believe it would be both. Interested to hear any opinions on this!
@InFrom@pmarin from the winery website āWhile our Noble & Ice Wines were harvested from the same vineyard block, they could not be more different.ā
This offer is not an ice wine, I bought a 3 pack from WW in 2016, a case from the winery in 2017 and another case from WW in 2017. We have 3 bottles left, drank a bottle in July over 2-3 days, itās still drinking well. My wife (who barely likes anything) enjoys this wine quite a bit, it reminds her of the Beerenauslese a friend used to bring us many years ago, when she did like wine.
I grabbed a case last night and will bring home another bottle from the cellar tonight now that I have some more on the way.
Happy to see this here for $15 a bottle! @WineDavid49
/giphy incandescent-underwhelmed-vanilla
@InFrom@pmarin A botrytized wine is not always an ice wine. Have you ever tried any of the dessert wines from Barsac or Sauterne? These are botrytized wines and are not ice wines. You can have varying levels of sweetness depending on when the grapes are harvested. For German wines they can be anywhere from a Spatlese (not as often), Auslese, Berenauslese (BA), to a Trokenberenauslese (TBA) or ice wine. In the U.S. most botrytized wines are made from not only Riesling grapes but also Sauvignon Blanc, Semillon, Gewurztraminer, and Chardonnay. You will occasionally find ones from other grapes such as Chenin Blanc, Viognier and Iāve even seen red wines in past years. Iāve been drinking wines for some 50 yrs and was in the wine business for over 20 yrs.
If you havenāt tried botrytized wines before I would suggest setting up a tasting with friends to try ones from different countries and different sweetness levels. This will help give you a better frame of reference when you do get a late harvest wine to Rat and find yourself at a loss for words on how to describeā¦ The better made Sauternes, Barsacs, BA, TBA, & ice wines can easily age for 20-30 yrs. I have tasted Sauternes that were over 50 yrs. old. To say the least it is an experience. Among early (recent history) examples from Calif. were a Sauterne style from Cresta Blanca in the 40ās. In the 60ās the early and more notable producers were Grand Cru, Ch. St. Jean, and Phelps. These were primarily from Riesling and Gewurztraminer grapes.
Years ago I recall tasting a '73 Freemark Abbey Johannisberg Riesling Edelwein Gold.
Do you have any recollection of those? I was thinking it may have been botrytized, but perhaps just a LH sweet bottlingā¦
@collegebob@InFrom@pmarin@rjquillin
In some jurisdictions, I think icewine is intended to be as free from botrytis as possible. Iām not 100% sure, but Niagara (the Canadian side) and Germany come to mind. Niagara doesnāt get much botrytis, and when grapes are fully botrytized in Germany they tend to get the TBA (trockenbeerenauslese - aka ādry late harvested berriesā) rather than icewine.
I guess this is just another one of those areas where you need to know the region, labelling rules, and such to be able to know whatās in the bottle.
Niagara, for the last 25 years or so, has made a lot of excellent icewine from red grapes. Most commonly Cabernet Franc, but also Merlot, Pinot Noir, Cabernet Sauvignon. For the whites, the ācheapā icewine is made from Vidal Blanc but the good icewines are made from Riesling, Gewurtztraminer, Chardonnay, and even Sauvignon Blanc. They donāt grow much in the way of Semillon there, but I bet theyād use it for icewine if they did!
@InFrom@pmarin@rjquillin Yes, I do remember the Edelwein Gold from Freemark Abbey. Donāt remember
if it was botrytized or not. Freemark Abbey still does occasionally make it
and it is just labeled as a Late Harvest Riesling.
klezmer, you are correct in that many icewines are not botrytized just
harvested late. The first icewines I ever tried, besides German ones, were
from the New York region.
There are/were some wineries that made what Iāll call a manufactured
icewine. They would harvest the grapes normally and then put them in a
freezer. After being frozen they would then make their icewine. The only
one I can remember off hand was the Bonny Doon Winery. Iām sure there were
others.
@collegebob
Yeah, Iāve had a couple icewines from the Finger Lakes, and @chipgreen gifted us a bottle from Ohio once upon a RPM Tour. All have been great.
Iāve had some icebox wines, the best of which is Scott Harveyās Angel Eis. But those are illegal to make in Canada, and itās illegal to call them icewine.
Mmmmā¦this discussion just makes me want more icewine.
OK NYC mates, Iām looking at getting myself the 4-pack, but the temptation of paying ~$15/bottle rather than ~$20 has got me thinking that this one would be worth the effort to do a share. Plus, lugging around half-bottles on the subway is not as big a deal for me as regular-sized ones.
Anyone interested? I would take anywhere from 3 to 6.
@theglassrat At this rate, Iām likely to buy just the 4 pack this evening, rather than the case. If youāre still in at the higher price, youāre very welcome to one. If more people jump on board today, Iāll get the 12.
I probably wonāt be checking in again until evening.
@InFrom Hey. I was unable to read the forum until just now and ended up getting a case, though Iād have been willing to split had I seen your post in time.
My sojourn friend just asked me to vote (20 max) for a video contest they are a finalist of for Spectator. If you like it, please vote for ā the edge of the earthā. https://www.winespectator.com/videovoting
@karenhynes@Winedavid49
They won! Maybe you can use that as leverage to get them on board.
I have more than enough of their juice to tide me over 'til the next Berserker Day but would definitely buy in on a Casemates offer.
@InFrom@karenhynes@Winedavid49
20161204
Seemed a bit extravagant then, less so now with the reduced price, but no ice.
I suppose I could use a few more, but I really should drink some of these.
2012 Pacific Rim Noble Wine Riesling, Selenium Vineyard, 375ml
Tasting Notes
Bouquet
Honey, caramel and apricot.
Taste
Stone fruit with medium Riesling acidity and rich sugar levels.
Food Pairing
Ideal with blue cheeses and fruit salads.
Production Technique
Selenium Vineyardās south facing slope sits 1,200 feet above sea level on a gentle south east facing slope. The rot developed over several months and the grapes were picked extremely late in February 2012.
Vintage and Winemaker Notes
90 Points, Wine Enthusiast
āThis botrytized wine came from 2011 vintage grapes that were not harvested until February 2012. A light-golden color, itās bright with aromas of dried apples, pears and flowers. Itās sweet (170g/L residual sugar) but not weighty, retaining a sense of lightness and elegance.ā āWine Enthusiast
#8 Top American Riesling - 92 Points!
āGolden in color and rich, with spicy notes complementing the open-textured apricot, pear and floral flavors. Finishes with remarkable transparency, lingering beautifully. Drink now through 2022.ā
2011 brought the coveted noble rot to Washingtonās Yakima Valley allowing us to craft a rare 100% botrytized Riesling. This succulent dessert wine expresses aromas of caramel and apricot while the flavors are rich with stone fruit and lush minerality.
At 1,200 feet of elevation, Selenium Vineyard sits on the Golden Bench of the Yakima Valley. This south facing slope has thin soils with wind-blown loess on fractured basalt encouraging the vines to dig deep for nutrients. Planted in 2001, Selenium Vineyard features German Riesling clones 190, 110, 98 & 239. All four clones were lovingly hand-harvested to ensure the best cluster selection for our Noble and Ice Wine Rieslings.
Specifications
Included in the Box
Price Comparison
$507.86/case at Pacific Rim (including shipping)
About The Winery
Winery: Pacific Rim Wines
Founded: 2006
Location: Yakima Valley, WA
First released by Randall Grahm of Bonny Doon Vineyard in 1992, Pacific Rim Dry Riesling quickly gained a loyal following among Riesling lovers. Known for its fresh and bright characteristics, the wine was a welcome alternative to over-oaked, one-dimensional white wines. As the American palate evolved in recent years toward wines with greater complexity and crisper acidity, the popularity of Pacific Rim Dry Riesling grew.
Demand and enthusiasm for Pacific Rim Dry Riesling continued to gain momentum ā and the excitement around the wine inspired a radical ideaā¦ the creation of a winery exclusively dedicated to Riesling. In August of 2006, a small band of Bonny Doon expats moved to the Northwest from California with a common desire to craft the best Riesling in Americaā¦ thus, Pacific Rim became its own winery.
At Pacific Rim, we are passionate about Riesling (in fact, nearly 90% of Pacific Rimās production is comprised of Riesling wines); we are passionate about crafting world-class Riesling; and we are passionate about extolling the wondrous virtues of Riesling.
Available States
AZ, CA, CO, DC, FL, GA, ID, IL, KS, MD, MA, MI, MN, MT, NH, NM, NY, NC, OR, PA, TN, TX, VA, WA
Estimated Delivery
Friday, October 11th - Tuesday, October 15th
Pacific Rim Noble Wine Riesling
4 bottles for $79.99 $20/bottle + $2/bottle shipping
Case of 12 for $179.99 $15/bottle + $1/bottle shipping
2012 Pacific Rim Noble Wine Riesling
I love playing with the Lab Rat image. Tried to represent the amber color, but it didnāt go well with the background and well paint is not photoshop, but what you see is what you get.
Now, to the wine.
Can I just say one word first - YUM!!!
When the bottle came and it was only 375 ml, I was very intrigued. So I will be honest I googled a bit first, and my eyes got very big. An aperitif or dessert wine - right up my alley. Good thing this is my birthday weekend and Iām going off my basically carb fast for a few days or I would have sipped and cried instead of planned to enjoy.
Came home from work and cracked the bottle. Generally wines like this arenāt for with food. Maybe with some cheese or berries or for some chocolate, but I see them as dessert in a bottle.
First thing you smell is the fruit, apple/pear seem much more dominant than the apricot mentioned above. I donāt get the caramel I get in some enriched dessert whites, but I got a definite hint of spice.
I donāt have aperitif glasses, so I went for my most elegant shot glasses. Amount is similar. I sat and drank it and smiled. and after a bit, went and got a second glass.
I heartily recommend this to anyone who obtains pleasure with this type of wine. Youāll love it. I have faith.
And I have a question for the Vintner if he comes on. On your website, you have a wine with an alcohol level listed as only being 1% - is this correct or a typo.
I will probably order some ice wine and ice wine like wines from you as well and one of my buddies is ogling the Framboise
Thank you for the pure pleasure of sampling this delight.
I thought this looked familiar.
Dipping into the past; WW on 12/4/2016, delivered 12/14/2016 for $23.40/btl (3-pack).
Complete even with a review.
Thanks to @cortot.
Wonder if I can find a bottleā¦
Well done @WineDavid49
@rjquillin
looks like they had some offerings mixed with the ice wine and some others as well.
Anyone here had their version of ice wine?
@Cerridwyn @rjquillin I did go for this full case because well, I had to (see Riesling, Randall, Rot below). But I would say I love it when there is a mix of 2 or more things in the full case ā just makes it a bit more intesteresting to try different things. Like a mix of noble and ice versions. Or I know some other recent offers have been verticals. And of course the Zeppelin mixed (and somewhat random case) ā that was over-the-top!
poised-pathetic-coil
Tonightās Rat: 2012 Noble Wine Riesling
Iām not quite sure how to go about this wine. I pretty much stick to reds, so a sweet white such as this is well outside of my comfort zone. With that being said I will endeavor to keep and open mind.
First of all as I mentioned earlier, this is what I would call a sweet white. Itās not your typical Riesling. It is closer to a Moscato than a traditional Riesling. It is a creative piece. Imagine a white Port minus the high alcohol. At 9% ABV it is sure to keep you cool and refreshed without getting you there in a hurry. I chilled mine in the fridge for about 30 minutes before opening it.
It has a rich golden, honey color. This comes across in a nose dominated by apricot, peach and prominent minerality which all conspire to create a distinct note of honey. The rest of the experience is very smooth and creamy with the minerality even more pronounced in the body. If you like minerality then you will enjoy this wine, otherwise it might not be for you. It has had time to rest and relax. It tastes mature. The low alcohol makes it perfect for dessert or even just a casual sipper for the occasional sweet tooth wino.
If I was into Rieslings and whites in general I could see myself stocking up on this one as a cool, interesting sweet red. It also comes in a half bottle so you donāt have to commit to an entire bottle once opened. However it should keep well in the fridge as it does not have any fiz(gas) to begin with. I would imagine, the sugar content alone should be enough to preserve it for days or weeks once opened.
Surely an interesting creative take for the right palate.
Is this vintage 2011 or 2012? All the notes discuss the 2011 growing season but the offer says 2012. And donāt tell me that harvesting the 2011 crop after new yearās makes it a different vintageā¦
@klezman this is the 2012
@klezman @winesnob In fact if Iām not mistaken vintage year is indeed designated by the year the grapes were picked. So if these grapes were planted 2011 and left hanging until 2012, the wine became a 2012 on Jan 1
@klezman Looking for the actual regulation, but here is a blurb from the winemaker at Hazlitt 1852 Vineyards in NY:
āWhat vintage actually refers to is wine produced from a particular harvest. When a wine is labeled with a āvintage dateā it is in reference to the year in which the grapes were harvested, but not in which they were necessarily grown.ā
@kaolis @winesnob
That is bizarre. Places that regularly grow icewine (Germany and Canada, and I thought, Washington State) had more sane rules. Grapes grown in 2011 are 2011 vintage. Labelling a 2011 wine with 2012 (even if thatās what the rules state) means consumers are confused. 2011 and 2012 may be dramatically different growing years.
@kaolis @klezman I honestly donāt care for icewine but it makes more sense to me that it would be labeled 2012 because growing the berries is only a fraction of the equation. The year the berries were harvested becomes the vintage as the vintage represents the age of the vines, how far they have come, the overall life of the Vineyard(s) and consequently the winemaking process (fermentation etc) which also typically occurs in that same year. Arguments can be made for the contrary for all manner of outlier cases such as this one so it is generally accepted that the clock stops when the grapes are harvested and the vintage is recorded. The onus is on the enthusiast to be cognizant of the nuanced timeline for certain styles of wine. IMHO
@kaolis @winesnob
Sure, ymmv. But your argument that a grape grown from April 2019 through December 31, 2019 should retain a 2019 vintage label while being harvested one day later should garner it a 2020 label makes no sense by the factors you cite. Also goes to why the wine description for this ā2012ā wine discuss the 2011 growing season - because thatās whatās important. Or, put another way, for a northern hemisphere wine you cannot have 2020 vintage wine until after the grapevines have budded out, flowered, set fruit, and ripened, all in 2020.
Canadian regulations use āgrowing seasonā and ācrop growing seasonā as the way to determine vintage.
German eiswein follows the same rules, and is often picked well into February.
I suspect the fine folks at TTB never bothered to consider that the growing season and harvest year could be different, yielding this inane regulation. Should be easy to fix, however, if ice wine makers simply worked on lobbying the TTB.
How much more are you saving by buying a full case?
(Note: Tax & Shipping not included in savings calculations)
2012 - Pacific Rim Noble Wine Riesling - $60 = 24.99%
Riesling, Randall, and Rot (the Noble kind)
/giphy tactile-rejoicing-vacation
@pmarin Oh my!
Iāve had Riesling icewine and other dessert wines over the years, but somehow Iāve missed out on trying a true botrytized wine. Very intrigued.
@InFrom I wouldnāt know anything about what it means, except that I learned a little about it in VIT 3 at UC Davis, So I still say the term Botrytis Cineria but donāt think Iāve ever had anything specifically attributed to it.
Actually now Iām curious, is it true that a botrytized wine is always an ice wine, but an ice wine is not necessarily (or typically) a botrytized wine? Or at least in this case it is since harvested in Februrary (and I know it gets cold in Yakima in February!)
@InFrom Thinking more about itā¦ I suppose my premise is wrong. You could have botrytized fruit and still harvest before a freeze (or in warmer climates where freezes are rare). But in the case of this Yakima Riesling, I believe it would be both. Interested to hear any opinions on this!
@pmarin The writeup doesnāt say anything about it being an icewine, so I think your example of harvesting before a freeze may be on the money.
@InFrom @pmarin from the winery website āWhile our Noble & Ice Wines were harvested from the same vineyard block, they could not be more different.ā
This offer is not an ice wine, I bought a 3 pack from WW in 2016, a case from the winery in 2017 and another case from WW in 2017. We have 3 bottles left, drank a bottle in July over 2-3 days, itās still drinking well. My wife (who barely likes anything) enjoys this wine quite a bit, it reminds her of the Beerenauslese a friend used to bring us many years ago, when she did like wine.
I grabbed a case last night and will bring home another bottle from the cellar tonight now that I have some more on the way.
Happy to see this here for $15 a bottle! @WineDavid49
/giphy incandescent-underwhelmed-vanilla
@catcoland Ice, Ice, Baby?
@InFrom @pmarin A botrytized wine is not always an ice wine. Have you ever tried any of the dessert wines from Barsac or Sauterne? These are botrytized wines and are not ice wines. You can have varying levels of sweetness depending on when the grapes are harvested. For German wines they can be anywhere from a Spatlese (not as often), Auslese, Berenauslese (BA), to a Trokenberenauslese (TBA) or ice wine. In the U.S. most botrytized wines are made from not only Riesling grapes but also Sauvignon Blanc, Semillon, Gewurztraminer, and Chardonnay. You will occasionally find ones from other grapes such as Chenin Blanc, Viognier and Iāve even seen red wines in past years. Iāve been drinking wines for some 50 yrs and was in the wine business for over 20 yrs.
If you havenāt tried botrytized wines before I would suggest setting up a tasting with friends to try ones from different countries and different sweetness levels. This will help give you a better frame of reference when you do get a late harvest wine to Rat and find yourself at a loss for words on how to describeā¦ The better made Sauternes, Barsacs, BA, TBA, & ice wines can easily age for 20-30 yrs. I have tasted Sauternes that were over 50 yrs. old. To say the least it is an experience. Among early (recent history) examples from Calif. were a Sauterne style from Cresta Blanca in the 40ās. In the 60ās the early and more notable producers were Grand Cru, Ch. St. Jean, and Phelps. These were primarily from Riesling and Gewurztraminer grapes.
@collegebob @InFrom @pmarin Thanks Bob.
@collegebob @InFrom @pmarin
Thanks for the history.
Years ago I recall tasting a '73 Freemark Abbey Johannisberg Riesling Edelwein Gold.
Do you have any recollection of those? I was thinking it may have been botrytized, but perhaps just a LH sweet bottlingā¦
@collegebob @InFrom @pmarin @rjquillin
In some jurisdictions, I think icewine is intended to be as free from botrytis as possible. Iām not 100% sure, but Niagara (the Canadian side) and Germany come to mind. Niagara doesnāt get much botrytis, and when grapes are fully botrytized in Germany they tend to get the TBA (trockenbeerenauslese - aka ādry late harvested berriesā) rather than icewine.
I guess this is just another one of those areas where you need to know the region, labelling rules, and such to be able to know whatās in the bottle.
Niagara, for the last 25 years or so, has made a lot of excellent icewine from red grapes. Most commonly Cabernet Franc, but also Merlot, Pinot Noir, Cabernet Sauvignon. For the whites, the ācheapā icewine is made from Vidal Blanc but the good icewines are made from Riesling, Gewurtztraminer, Chardonnay, and even Sauvignon Blanc. They donāt grow much in the way of Semillon there, but I bet theyād use it for icewine if they did!
@InFrom @pmarin @rjquillin Yes, I do remember the Edelwein Gold from Freemark Abbey. Donāt remember
if it was botrytized or not. Freemark Abbey still does occasionally make it
and it is just labeled as a Late Harvest Riesling.
klezmer, you are correct in that many icewines are not botrytized just
harvested late. The first icewines I ever tried, besides German ones, were
from the New York region.
There are/were some wineries that made what Iāll call a manufactured
icewine. They would harvest the grapes normally and then put them in a
freezer. After being frozen they would then make their icewine. The only
one I can remember off hand was the Bonny Doon Winery. Iām sure there were
others.
@collegebob
Yeah, Iāve had a couple icewines from the Finger Lakes, and @chipgreen gifted us a bottle from Ohio once upon a RPM Tour. All have been great.
Iāve had some icebox wines, the best of which is Scott Harveyās Angel Eis. But those are illegal to make in Canada, and itās illegal to call them icewine.
Mmmmā¦this discussion just makes me want more icewine.
@chipgreen @collegebob @klezman
had an interesting apple ice wine from canada once, it was pretty unique in all the ones i have had
OK NYC mates, Iām looking at getting myself the 4-pack, but the temptation of paying ~$15/bottle rather than ~$20 has got me thinking that this one would be worth the effort to do a share. Plus, lugging around half-bottles on the subway is not as big a deal for me as regular-sized ones.
Anyone interested? I would take anywhere from 3 to 6.
@InFrom Iāll take 1 if thatās of interest
@theglassrat At this rate, Iām likely to buy just the 4 pack this evening, rather than the case. If youāre still in at the higher price, youāre very welcome to one. If more people jump on board today, Iāll get the 12.
I probably wonāt be checking in again until evening.
/giphy heavy-unreal-cactus
For the 4-pack.
@InFrom Hey. I was unable to read the forum until just now and ended up getting a case, though Iād have been willing to split had I seen your post in time.
/giphy madly-traumatic-zoo
@baqui63 I canceled my order, hope youāre still looking to share!
Sounds great, but Tiny Timās grudge is approaching three decades ā¦
My sojourn friend just asked me to vote (20 max) for a video contest they are a finalist of for Spectator. If you like it, please vote for ā the edge of the earthā. https://www.winespectator.com/videovoting
No biggie, but itād be cool.
@Winedavid49
Done!
@Winedavid49
Why havenāt we had a Sojourn offer?
@karenhynes @Winedavid49
They won! Maybe you can use that as leverage to get them on board.
I have more than enough of their juice to tide me over 'til the next Berserker Day but would definitely buy in on a Casemates offer.
@chipgreen @karenhynes they are pumped! And thankful for the boost. I may guilt them into an offer just yet!
@chipgreen @Winedavid49
Iām pretty sure it was my ~40 votes that night that put them over the edge.
@chipgreen @karenhynes no doubt!!
Ends at midnight tonight.
@Winedavid49 Itās already past midnight, for you.
@winedavid49
Hey, WD, remember this offer?
@rjquillin How lovely! Iām surprised I passed on that offer.
@rjquillin yup
@rjquillin @winedavid49
Iād be in on that offer.
@karenhynes @rjquillin @Winedavid49 Was that on WW, RLL, or elsewhere?
@InFrom @karenhynes @Winedavid49
20161204
Seemed a bit extravagant then, less so now with the reduced price, but no ice.
I suppose I could use a few more, but I really should drink some of these.
@InFrom @karenhynes @rjquillin @Winedavid49 I think we were rats for that offer. I should go look up my notes!
@karenhynes @klezman @rjquillin @Winedavid49 I went ahead and did it, better late than never? The 2013.
If anyone in New England/NH bought a case and would care to part with some bottlesā¦Iād be interested
@InFrom toast
@rjquillin
