Aged Wine, how to discuss it
2On the discussion for Epiphany Wine Company 90+ Point Reds, discussion on the wine started @klezman and I discussing aged wine in general. I was about to reply, because it was an interesting topic and I want to get his thoughts, when I realized it might end up a huge discussion buried in the wrong place. So I thought I
@klezman @wnance To be clear, there’s a point that’s ‘too late’ for some people, that I’m pretty sure I like. It’s when the color has changed, and you can tell by the color it’s ‘old’. From comparing CT notes, it seems there’s a stage others think is over the hill, but that I think is dandy. I think it might be ‘oxidized’ but ‘not vinegary’ stage. Sometimes on CT I seem them call something oxidized, and sometimes they like it, and sometimes they don’t. Also, difficult to compare with CT notes because of bottle variation and different storage.
That 6 year after vintage Torcido I mentioned, I really enjoyed. It’s that after putting it through the Vinturi, it was sour and not enjoyable. Then from the decanter (where the un-vinturied wine had been sitting for 2 minutes), it was great (color changed, aged flavors, etc.). 4 hours later, the little bit left in the vinturi was sour. I wonder, if the after-4-hours wine, maybe you would have enjoyed, even though I didn’t. hmmmmm.
My boss gave me several bottles of 2003 Delille Cellars Syrah, that he found in his basement, that he knows I and (especially) my wife enjoy. Those thing were awesome. His cellar gets warm in the summer, but stays constant throughout any day/night. So, pretty good cellar conditions. He gave me a 2005 Chateaneuf-du-pape when I had last year (yes, very good boss!), which we liked, but I found myself thinking it would be better later.
I probably need to get together with live humans more often to share old wine, to really understand where I’m at. There’s a certain stage where a wine is definitely aged, that I think is just great. I don’t know how to describe it to others.
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I also like wine with definite aged characteristics. Bottle bouquet is one way people describe it, another is tertiary aromas (although some call them secondary aromas…confusing).
Oxidized wine, however, has a distinctively nutty aroma in whites (and sometimes in reds) and can lead to raisin-type aromas. A little bit is good, but a lot is usually a fault for most people. Kind of like the barnyard aromas, bell pepper, etc. A bit adds complexity while a lot can get unpleasant. And of course, this is the archetype of “ymmv”.
@klezman I find raisin-type aromas almost exclusively in wines that were harvested at too high degrees Brix, which taste (at best) like (almost) overripe fruit when young and more and more like Cheracol as they age. Most often they’re plummy even in youth and age to a stewed prune aroma. As one might surmise from these description, I can’t stand wines like that. I want even aged wines to have (at least vestiges of) fruit as well as bottle bouquet.
@rpm Yes, that’s a good point about the relationship between raisin and overripe grapes. I’d thought about that when posting, but I was at a loss for another way to describe the semi-oxidized aromas in reds, because they don’t usually come across as hazelnut or walnut to me the way whites usually do.
Hmmm. I think what I like might be described as bottle bouquet.
Another dumb move on my part. First dumb move was getting into wine. 2nd was learning to appreciate good wine. 3rd mistake was trying aged good wine. For my pocketbook, I should have stuck to chocolate milk.
@PatrickKarcher Once you have a truly great aged wine and have had what I describe as the “Aha!” moment, you can never go back to blissful ignorance of what is possible. You will spend the rest of your life looking for that - or become a teetotaler…
@PatrickKarcher @rpm
Yeah, I’ve had a few aha moments. Even worse, the first ones were with aged Burgundy (a 23 year old Meursault and a 20 year old red Santenay).
OWLS! TOWELS! JOWLS! AWESOME!