AMA: Ask Mates Anything

@Twich22 I’ll provide a short and quick general answer, someone more familiar with this specific wine will chime in I’m sure.

Wine doesn’t “improve” endlessly, it changes endlessly. Even bottles that could go down for a long nap and be excellent when opened 20 years from now, may have tasted better when it was younger.

So, just because a bottle will age well doesn’t mean you should let it. If it tastes good now, drink it. Life’s too short to wait only to find out it aged too long.

That said, if you haven’t done one before, vertical tastings can be very interesting, but each vintage will be different so even that isn’t a perfect test of what you might like/dislike during the aging process…

I guess this wasn’t as quick as I thought it would be!

vaaccess has the sense of it. Wine changes as it ages. Most, not all, wines enter a “dumb phase” where they turn downright bland for months/years. Aging wine is pretty much a crapshoot without a large purchase, a large cellar and a willingness to toss an $80 bottle of wine. Having said, your port should hold a few more years and will be interesting to taste now and then.

@Twich22 well made port will evolve over many years, over time it will lose fruit and will pick tertiary flavors. I opened a 2002 port I picked up at a discounter for $10 this week. Initially the bottle seemed past pull but with a days worth of air it became really very good. I’ve opened Wellington vintage port at 10-15 years from vintage and found it very young. I’d guess it can go easily 20-25 years. Wellingtons criolla port is a port blend from the inception of his port program is meant to be consumed within a couple years of bottling. As port ages it throws a lot of sediment so have a strainer handy.

The nice thing about port is it will hold open on your counter for quite awhile because of the sugar level and the addition of the fortified spirits. I don’t drink a lot of it seem to always enjoy it when I open a bottle.

@CorTot Thanks!

@Twich22 Please just send them here. We will dispose of them properly for you. We did not get any because molarchae forgot to press the button.

@DJZachAttack while the winemaker would say they are all approachable now, the WW community consensus is wait for the 10 year mark from vintage. All the victorys will be good at that age and will continue to evolve over time.

@CorTot thanks! I’ll have my fingers crossed for a 2007.

@DJZachAttack Of the two more recent vintages, Peter (winemaker) I recall indicated the '13 was a softer vintage and more approachable in it’s early life. A lengthy decant would be beneficial.

@DJZachAttack We had the '08 the other day, no need to wait on it.

@rjquillin (and @DJZachAttack) I just had a '13 the other night, and it was most definitely drinkable. It was, in fact, delicious. Halfway through the glass, I remembered to toast Peter Wellington, and thank him for his gifts to us all in December (and before, of course).

@Shrdlu Crap, I’m going to have to open one of my precious few bottles of '13 then. Additionally, like @InFrom, we had a bottle of '08 last weekend, and it was superb. While additional aging isn’t going to hurt it, it’s ready to drink now, at least as far as my palate is concerned.

@xandersherry If you haven’t yet, wait till you have a good 20~25 year (or older) bottle sometime. On the '14 rpm tour tasting some well cellared/aged cab and bdx blends was a total epiphany for me.

@rjquillin Definitely will do. I’ve only had one that age to this point…A '91 Wellington Victory magnum that we opened in October, and it was outstanding. I’ve had several at 15 years+ though, including a 2001 Victory in the last month or so that was one of the best bottles of wine I’ve ever had.

@DJZachAttack We opened a 1994 Victory last November and it was phenomonal. Still had some fruit left, a really good wine. It was over shadowed by the incredible 2004, but not due to age. I feel the 1994 bottle we had could last at least 5 more years.

We opened two 1977 Stag’s Leap SLVs as a friend’s birthday vintage wine a dew months ago. One bottle was ok, the other really good. Aging wine brings out differences in bottles as well. Some people really like the additional flavors which come forward as a wine gains age, some people like them younger with more fruit. The best is to pop lots of corks and see what you like!

@DJZachAttack Victory arrived.
Ended up with 2 each '07, '08 and '09 along with 6 each '12 and '13.
Thinking Victory at Sea, but in a bottle.

@knlprez agreed. I went on a wine tour through Bordeaux, and I actually didn’t like the soft, leathery taste of really old stuff. I ended up buying all the second labels that the wineries consider “drink now”.

Yet another box of Victory showed up.
This time 2 x '13 and an '08.
And one more shirt…

@rjquillin I guess if you end up homeless due to all the wine buying you can wear all the shirts at once to stay warm…

@CorTot Ok, you’re out of the wine will!

@rjquillin you can leave me the 70’s white zin as an inside joke. I won’t even be mad at you!

@CorTot You recall what Wellington that was we had that night?
I don’t.

@rjquillin the blind zin tasting?

@CorTot
Ummm brown zin

@CorTot were those all zins? That would rather explain the selection.
Yes, SoCal #31; Theme: blind tasting competition for best zin.

Hope those old ww threads don’t disappear.
Rereading, that was a long one.

@mike808 I’ll put my return address on a pre-paid shipping container and send it to you…

@mike808 I really really wish I had more more more of that stuff. Happy to take care of any you don’t want

@klezman @rjquillin I’ll take that as a drink now.

@mike808 I have notes from KR, who estimated that his PS would be drinkable for 10 years from the vintage date, after which is would enter its dumb phase for about 10 years, emerge and be good for about 5 years. I don’t think Kent would take the exact dates as gospel, but a 2007 should be entering its dumb phase about now. I had one a few months ago and it was fine.

@NightGhost Got it. Drink all the PS now or wait for another decade.

@NightGhost Oh good. I have KR PS 07 & 08, Ty’s PS 09, and Black Zep PS 09 and Twisted Oak 07 PS.

And a bunch of Vino Noceto Sangiovese to tide me over if I tire of the PS.

@f00l A period of time that a bottled wine will/may go through during which the flavors and aroma become muted. I’m sure someone else can provide a more elaborate explanation, but that’s the short version.

@f00l adult males ages 12-25.

@CorTot @AnnaB you’re both correct

@CorTot Hah!

@CorTot

I once read a book about the practice of child/adolescent psychiatry. One practitioner described working with adolescent males as being something like “large English-speaking-animal psychiatry.”

His description was not intended as an insult.

The practitioner elaborated: among adolescents, most female patients and some male patients would talk.

But for what seems like large portions of his appointments with adolescent males, and with some females, the patients’ conversational responses were limited to phrases such as

Yes
No
Fine
Uh-huh
I guess.
Sure
Yeah
All right.
Don’t think so.

No matter what question he asked, and no matter how dramatic the known recent events.

And often it was tough getting that much response. He made do with far less.

For some reason, that anecdote always stuck with me.

@CorTot Some would say adult males ages 12 - 105.

@AnnaB are there any guidelines for when dumb phases tend to occur and for how long dumb phases tend to last. Or is it mostly just a taste and see thing. I had a bottle of 2011 pirouette the other night that tastes as if it was in a dumb phase.

@Twich22 from what I’ve read and been taught, there’s no hard and fast guideline on when or even how long. It’s mostly reds and I’ve been told that if you have a case of something and think maybe it’s in this phase after drinking some, all you can really do it wait a while and try another one.

@Twich22 So far you have had the ability to purchase 4 bottles, or a case of 12. I’m not sure if every offer will stick to that format, though.

@Twich22 I’ll speculate, they could be doing this to help reduce any issues with regards to how much wine can be shipped to a single residence. Some state laws are stringier than others and this might be a way to manage that a little better and keep more states on the ship-to list.

There’s also a possibility that the offer quantities won’t be like they were before…and they don’t want some to stockpile their limited supplies.

@jml326 I was thinking this would be nice too. Just like the forum has a 5 minute edit, maybe let folks edit their order until the deal closes if stock remains. If I’m interested in a wine I’ll most likely always just buy the lesser option. If 8 hours later someone near me wants to split a case, I’m out of luck.

This deal is a perfect example. I don’t want 12 bottles, but I’d take 6 if someone wanted to split it. On the flip side, with the deal a day mentality, if it’s something I want, I don’t want to wait to see if I can find someone who wants a full case, and by the time I do, the offer is sold out.

@markgm I might be misreading it a bit, but I think one of the reasons they’re sticking at 4 and 12 bottle purchases is to reduce shipping and handling complexities. Less inventory of boxes and packing materials, etc. Might be one way they are attempting to lower the S&H side of things to keep prices low…

@vaaccess where I think your misreading is our desire to edit an order if we find a Casemates. As I believe you are correct sticking with 2 shipping options.

@jml326 Yep, you are correct. I did misread the intent of @markgm 's comment! DOH!